Freethought & Rationalism Archive

David Vestal · 11-05-2005, 03:56 PM

Quite a bit of Ecclesiastes is true. Here's a few good passages:

Chapter 1:8-10:

Quote:

8 All things are wearisome,
more than one can say.
The eye never has enough of seeing,
nor the ear its fill of hearing.

9 What has been will be again,
what has been done will be done again;
there is nothing new under the sun.

10 Is there anything of which one can say,
"Look! This is something new"?
It was here already, long ago;
it was here before our time.

Chapter 3:

Quote:

19 Man's fate is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both: As one dies, so dies the other. All have the same breath [b] ; man has no advantage over the animal. Everything is meaningless. 20 All go to the same place; all come from dust, and to dust all return. 21 Who knows if the spirit of man rises upward and if the spirit of the animal [c] goes down into the earth?" 22 So I saw that there is nothing better for a man than to enjoy his work, because that is his lot. For who can bring him to see what will happen after him?

From Chapter 5:

Quote:

8 If you see the poor oppressed in a district, and justice and rights denied, do not be surprised at such things; for one official is eyed by a higher one, and over them both are others higher still. 9 The increase from the land is taken by all; the king himself profits from the fields.

From Chapter 6:

Quote:

11 The more the words,
the less the meaning,
and how does that profit anyone?

From Chapter 7:

Quote:

20 There is not a righteous man on earth
who does what is right and never sins.

21 Do not pay attention to every word people say,
or you may hear your servant cursing you-

22 for you know in your heart
that many times you yourself have cursed others.

Diogenes the Cynic · 11-05-2005, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mata leao

The Bible says that after the fall, mankind is inherently greedy, selfish, and self centered. That is true.

When you say "after the fall." you imply that there was a change. That there was ever a time when humans were not selfish, etc. Observing that humans are ego-driven and selfish is no more remarkable an observation than that fire is hot. The problem is that the Bible's explanation for human selfishness has no historical basis and so in that more important sense, the essential part of the story, the Bible is not true.

Citing this example is like saying the Arachne myth is true because spiders really do spin webs.

I. C. Unicorns · 11-05-2005, 04:18 PM

Song of Solomon 8:8 We have a little sister, and she hath no breasts:

My little sister once had no breasts, so that is probably true.

diana · 11-05-2005, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic

When you say "after the fall." you imply that there was a change. That there was ever a time when humans were not selfish, etc.

And if I may add...if humans didn't start off "greedy, selfish and self-centered," then what on earth prompted Adam and Eve to taste that damn fruit in the first place?

d

Sauron · 11-05-2005, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mata leao

The Bible says that after the fall, mankind is inherently greedy, selfish, and self centered. That is true.

However, that presumes that an event called "The Fall" ever happened.

It also ignores the fact that humans show a surprising amount of altruistic behavior.

mata leao · 11-05-2005, 07:19 PM

the selfish gene and hominid altruism. I helped write the book sonny! and no, humans are we beasties! just like the Bible says.

Diogenes the Cynic · 11-05-2005, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mata leao

the selfish gene and hominid altruism. I helped write the book sonny! and no, humans are we beasties! just like the Bible says.

Could you try this post again? I have no idea what you're trying to say.

Sauron · 11-05-2005, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mata leao

the selfish gene and hominid altruism. I helped write the book sonny!

What book?

Quote:

and no, humans are we beasties! just like the Bible says.

Evolution has always said that humans are the same as animals.
Glad to see the bible agrees.

Sauron · 11-05-2005, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic

Could you try this post again? I have no idea what you're trying to say.

Given the late hour of mata's current rash of postings, plus the unusually disorganized comments, I'm betting that he's had a few drinks on this Saturday night.

Anat · 11-05-2005, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diana

And if I may add...if humans didn't start off "greedy, selfish and self-centered," then what on earth prompted Adam and Eve to taste that damn fruit in the first place?

The mutation that made them unable to synthesize vitamin C?

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11-05-2005, 04:18 PM	#13
I. C. Unicorns Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: San José, Calif. Posts: 2,796	Song of Solomon 8:8 We have a little sister, and she hath no breasts: My little sister once had no breasts, so that is probably true.

11-05-2005, 07:19 PM	#16
mata leao Banned Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: tampa,florida Posts: 342	the selfish gene and hominid altruism. I helped write the book sonny! and no, humans are we beasties! just like the Bible says.

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