kcdad

NOT who it was written to or for... that is for sure.

HUH?

So? Use some critical analysis. Who was it written by and who for? Why would the author include that? YOU certainly don't believe anyone named Jesus said that.

aa5874

It should be obvious to you that the Synoptic Jesus character was fabricated or manufactured to warn the Jews about the coming of the Kingdom of Heaven.

It would appear that the Synoptic Jesus character was created or manufactured by an apocalyptic author who thought that the Kingdom of God was at hand sometime after the Fall of the Temple or after 70 CE.

The Jesus story of the apocalyptic author was very simple.

After John the Baptist, God sent his Son to warn the Jews.

The Jews rejected his Son and killed him.

God had no choice but to destroy Jerusalem because of the evil of the Jews.

And it is NOW time for the Kingdom of God to come.


Mark 14:62 - Mark 9:1 - The words of the apocalyptic author as he was writing sometime after the Fall of the Temple. The kingdom of God is now at hand.

The HJ is a most SENSELESS proposition, Jesus was just a belief manufactured by an apocalyptic author sometime after the Fall of the Temple.

kcdad

The only problem with your analysis is that you presume "The Kingdom of Heaven" is something real, even though Jesus is rumored to have said it is within you... not here or there.

aa5874

Where did I presume that the Kingdom of Heaven was real. I know nothing about the Kingdom of Heaven except that the author of gMark claimed Jesus said these words at the beginnig of his ministry

Mr 1:15 - And later, at another time..

Mark 9:1 -
And at the end of his ministry, at his trial before crucifixion.

Mark 14:62 -
The Synoptic Jesus came to warn the Jews about the coming of the Kingdom of God, and his crucifixion by the Jews would signify destruction, not salvation.

kcdad

Stop quoting what you don't believe... it makes your arguments look ridiculous.
You stated: "to warn the Jews about the coming of the Kingdom of Heaven."
as if that coming was a real some thing to be warned against. It is a proclamation not a warning. The Kingdom of Heaven has arrived! Obviously he wasn't talking about any kind of kingdom or government... it is another of the many metaphors and parables that he used to further his teachings.

The crucifixion, even in the most fundamentalist churches is celebration of grace... for the Catholics it is is the ultimate act of divine intervention. Protestants tend to look on the resurrection (hence the crucifix and the empty crosses of each church) as the great act of divine intervention.

In order to understand the teachings of the early church you have to separate all of the mysticism and miracle accounts from the teachings. Apparently you are unable to.

aa5874

The HJ is a most SENSELSS proposition.

As I ponder on the HJ position it becomes extremely apparent that such a position is a complete disaster. It defies logic and history.

Virtually all of the information for Jesus of the NT comes from the NT and the Church writings, and in those writings, Jesus was considered TRULY the offspring of the Holy Ghost, the Creator, the Son of God who walked on water, transfigured with the resurrected Moses and Elijah, was raised from the dead and ascended through the clouds.

In order to claim Jesus was only human, virtually all of the information about Jesus from the NT and the Church writings must be deemed to be not credible and discarded.

But, if the sources of ANTIQUITY about Jesus are not credible, then how can Jesus be deemed to have been human with all discredited sources?

All the extant Church writings from Ignatius to Eusebius that mention Jesus did not claim Jesus was just a mere man.

No contemporary of the supposed human Jesus ever wrote that they personally saw Jesus alive and in an human state before he died and talked to or accompanied him anywhere.

The author of Acts claimed he preached and traveled with Paul all over the Roman Empire, but the author of Luke did NOT write that he was in Judea and that he accompanied Jesus anywhere or saw him at anytime.

No contemporary DESCRIBED the physical features of the human Jesus, but the facial features of Jesus was described after he transfigured with the resurrected Moses and Elijah.

Mt 17:2 - HJers have a virtual impossible task, to confirm that Jesus was human strictly based on belief while depending on fiction, or discredited information as their corroborative support.

There is just no logic or history for an HJ.

aa5874

I have to quote what is in the NT, there is no other source for the Gospel Jesus.

Now, you claim the The Kingdom of Heaven had arrived but I will show you again that your claim appears to be erroneous.

Some people will die before they see the Kingdom of God.

Please look carefully at the passage this time. Jesus said, as found in the NT, that SOME will NOT taste death until the Kingdom of God come.

Mark 9:1 -
And then later, this is the so-called Jesus on the Kingdom of God.

Mar 14:25 - And it would appear that Joseph who buried Jesus was waiting for the Kingdom of God.

Mr 15:43 - Even Jesus was waiting for the Kingdom of God to have another drink with the boys.

kcdad

As for quoting the NT, you need to understand that it is not a single unified account of anything. One must critically read the texts, both in and out of the Canon, in order to get an understanding of the man, the myth and the legends.

Most people WILL die before seeing the Kingdom of Heaven. Most people die before seeing Rome; or in the metaphysical sense, before seeing self actualization.
Jesus never claimed to be anything other than fully human. All of that comes much later in church doctrine.

aa5874

Well, if you claim that the NT is not a "single unified account of anything" why are you telling me that "Jesus never claimed to be anything than fully human"?

Now, the authors of the NT did claim that Jesus was the offspring of the Holy Ghost of God, who walked on water, transfigured with the resurrected Moses and Elijah, was raised from the dead and ascended through the clouds.

And if you say that "One must critically read the texts, both in and out of the Canon, in order to get an understanding of the man, the myth and the legends", then I will refer you to Tertullian's "On the flesh of Christ" 5

It is clear now that Jesus was considered a GOD/MAN, both IN and OUT the CANON.

kcdad

Did he? Show me where he claimed to be more than human.

Do you think the authors of Matthew and Luke intended us to think The Holy Ghost (a really childish translation) impregnated Mary? Do you think they didn't understand the concept of "spirit of holiness"?

I am supposed to swallow something Tertullian wrote... why?

So would you like to me to quote all the passages in and out of the Canon that state the opposite? Plenty of followers of Jesus through out the history of the church have stood for Jesus' humanity against the heresy of his divinity.

Until you reconcile Octavian's divinity, Jesus' means nothing.