spin

The better weather in Jerusalem compared with Tarsus? Tarsus is after all far more humid than Jerusalem, so instead of being slowly baked you're quickly boiled.

Paul doesn't give any support to the pillars as a source of theological importance. In fact he is totally unimpressed with them: they contributed nothing to him. He felt no respect for them.


spin

spin

Be nice.

If you embark "on the quest for the historical Jesus", you already assume that there is a Jesus to be historical about: it's just a matter of what you feel you must keep.

If "what we have today" is an unknown which could be the equivalent to the flat earth theory, you'd have no problem fighting against it. It may however be basically correct, but if you start off supporting the untested "what we have today", it's very hard to put a new shoe on if you resist taking the old one off first.


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Ben C Smith

Did the pillars preach a crucified Jesus or not? If not, why does Paul shake hands with them?

Ben.

spin

I can't say what they preached, but I'd guess they were happy to have been rid of him. You probably would have shaken his hand as well. :wave:


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Ben C Smith

I will take the convergence of evidence over your guesses every time.

But please note I did not ask why they shook hands with him. I asked why he shook hands with them.

1 Corinthians 15.11:

Whether then it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed.

What, I ask, did Paul and they (those apostles in the faith before him; see verses 9-10) preach in common?

Ben.

Clivedurdle

Christ crucified?

Not sure that gets anyone anywhere!

Amaleq13

I think Ben is suggesting that what Paul describes as being told to him by others does not constitute his gospel obtained exclusively from Jesus.

No Robots

Ah yes, I see:

For I delivered unto you first of all, which I also received: how that Christ died for our sins, according to the scriptures:
And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day, according to the scriptures:
And that he was seen by Cephas; and after that by the eleven.—1Co 15:3-5


For neither did I receive it of man, nor did I learn it; but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.—Ga1:12

A most interesting and important observation. Thanks!

spin

When you've got some convergence.

It does make a difference, you're right. Paul despite his comments needed recognition. After all he was certainly until then out on a limb by himself.

You've got me, Ben C. What might messianists say? The messiah's coming? Who said the dead are not raised? (v.15b)


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Clivedurdle

Now I am very confused! I have always read that and read it today as Paul quite clearly stating he did not learn the gospel from man! What is the problem?

Please note those repeated words - according to the scriptures. He has a revelation from reading the scriptures - he thought god was speaking to him, probably a vision as well - I understand this as Paul making it up after long hours of Bible study prayer and fasting.

And no real Jesus!

Then several years later he allegedly meets some Jewish messianists and assumes they are talking about the same thing.