Freethought & Rationalism Archive

aa5874 · 12-11-2008, 06:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spamandham

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

Another useless statement.

You cannot prove that it is possible that Jesus of the NT can ascend through clouds and that it was witnessed by his disciples.

Certainly I can prove it's possible. Most everyone here other than you, will comprehend this proof:

Imagine for a moment, Jesus floating up into the clouds. Further, imagine his disciples witnessing it. What internal contradictions did that excercise involve? If none, then it is logically possible. It just isn't likely, because we do not observe things like that happening. You can estimate the probability as close to zero as you like, but you can not consistently claim it is identically 0 (impossible), because the scenario involves no internal contradictions.

You have already admitted your percentage of probability of 20% is useless.

You have now admitted that you cannot prove that Jesus of the NT was possible.

Now, you want me accept your imagination.

Please, please.

Jesus of the NT was impossible.

Things impossible have NO evidence of their possibility.

aa5874 · 12-11-2008, 06:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheshbazzar

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

Please listen carefully to Eusebius and Tertullian, we may have a confession on our hands.

As far as I'm concerned they have perjured themselves repeatedly, they have already been questioned at long length, they are no longer "persons of interest" and are no longer being detained for questioning, but rather are now safely locked away for the welfare and safety of all society, just awaiting trial, judgment, and sentencing.

Personally, I am convinced that the jury will find them guilty on all counts, and The Judge will throw The Book at them, and they will be put away for a long, looooong time.
just metamorphically speaking, you understand?

But, they will always be persons of interest.

They claimed that a god called Jesus was actually on earth, born of a virgin, conceived through the Holy Ghost. And that this divine character, with the physical body of a human being, was indeed crucufied during the days of Pilate and floated through the clouds and witnessed by his disciple.

Now, how did obvious fiction get canonised? Eusebius and Tertullian must know how it happened.

If you listen carefully, I think you may notice that they did tell us, inadvertently how it happened.

It was Eusebius and Tertullian that "told" me, inadvertently, that Jesus of the NT was impossible.

spamandham · 12-11-2008, 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

You have already admitted your percentage of probability of 20% is useless.

You repeatedly fail to understand the difference between useless and baseless. I am unsure if this is (a) an intellectual failure on your part, (b) an unfamiliarity with the language, or (c) you are being dishonestly obscurantist.

Here is my assessment of the probabilities of each of these:
a) 5%
b) 3%
c) 80%

As a result of this assessment, we're done.

aa5874 · 12-11-2008, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spamandham

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

You have already admitted your percentage of probability of 20% is useless.

You repeatedly fail to understand the difference between useless and baseless. I am unsure if this is (a) an intellectual failure on your part, (b) an unfamiliarity with the language, or (c) you are being dishonestly obscurantist.

Here is my assessment of the probabilities of each of these:
a) 5%
b) 3%
c) 80%

As a result of this assessment, we're done.

But, you understand what "useless" means and have assessed your own probability of Jesus of the NT as useless.

You're done.

Sheshbazzar · 12-11-2008, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheshbazzar

As far as I'm concerned they have perjured themselves repeatedly, they have already been questioned at long length, they are no longer "persons of interest" and are no longer being detained for questioning, but rather are now safely locked away for the welfare and safety of all society, just awaiting trial, judgment, and sentencing.

Personally, I am convinced that the jury will find them guilty on all counts, and The Judge will throw The Book at them, and they will be put away for a long, looooong time.
just metamorphically speaking, you understand?

But, they will always be persons of interest.

They claimed that a god called Jesus was actually on earth, born of a virgin, conceived through the Holy Ghost. And that this divine character, with the physical body of a human being, was indeed crucufied during the days of Pilate and floated through the clouds and witnessed by his disciple.

Now, how did obvious fiction get canonised? Eusebius and Tertullian must know how it happened.

If you listen carefully, I think you may notice that they did tell us, inadvertently how it happened.

It was Eusebius and Tertullian that "told" me, inadvertently, that Jesus of the NT was impossible.

"Always" is a very long time.
The last two thousand years hardly amounts to a pfffft upon the face of eternity.
They are all dead, and returned to dust of the earth, and in time even that dust will be dispersed across the countless billions of miles of space,
their words, their ideas, and religion gone, and all that it ever engendered long, long since passed and gone from any memory,
if any humans even still exist then, to give any consideration to such minuscule and worthless old tripe.

We live in an age........and like all things, -this also shall pass-, and be no more, forevermore.

So I don't get too worked up about their evils and intrigues,
They are all locked away in a prison from which none ever return,
But the evils and intrigues of today are what we inherited from such men,
So yes, examine their writings, and refute their silly claims,
to hold evil men and their works at bay as best you can while you live.
Our fathers have inherited lies and vain things wherein there is no profit.
But good and well, -this also shall pass-.

eheffa · 12-11-2008, 11:55 AM

Quote:

"Always" is a very long time.
The last two thousand years hardly amounts to a pfffft upon the face of eternity.
They are all dead, and returned to dust of the earth, and in time even that dust will be dispersed across the countless billions of miles of space,
their words, their ideas, and religion gone, and all that it ever engendered long, long since passed gone from any memory,
if any humans even still exist then, to give any consideration to such minuscule and worthless old tripe.

We live in an age........and like all things, -this also shall pass-, and be no more, forevermore.

So I don't get too worked up about their evils and intrigues,
They are all locked away in a prison from which none ever return,
But the evils and intrigues of today are what we inherited from such men,
So yes, examine their writings, and refute their silly claims,
to hold evil men and their works at bay as best you can while you live.
Our fathers have inherited lies and vain things wherein there is no profit.
But good and well, -this also shall pass-.

You're a poet Sheshbazzar...& a darned good one too!

-evan

Sheshbazzar · 12-11-2008, 12:12 PM

Thanks, but I take little credit, as I only brought up and set in order, the better ideas that other men have long since offered, but tend to be forgotten in the face of silly religious arguments.

mountainman · 12-11-2008, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheshbazzar

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

I just cannot release (cannot ignore) Eusebius and Tertullian, they appear to know a lot about Paul and Jesus and the Church. They must remain in custody (are to be researched and questioned extensively) until they talk.

Dear aa5874,

I have often thought the same thing myself. I also suspect that I know where their real weakness lies, and it might be an idea to question them in this specific area. If you were to start a new thread about putting Eusebius and Tertullian in a cell at Scotland Yard, I will certainly contribute.

Quote:

You could have another 100,000 pages of their propaganda tripe, and it would still prove absolutely nothing about what actually transpired.
What do you want to hear? their continuators stand ever ready to continue the making up of otherwise unknown christian "history" to order.

Dear Shesh,

This is emminently true. History to order is a succinct summary. Clearly the propaganda is to be accepted and placed at the far end of the table of evidence, along with the mountains of known forgeries. We need to then ask ourselves what then remains at this end of the table.

Best wishes,

Pete

aa5874 · 12-11-2008, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainman

Dear aa5874,

I have often thought the same thing myself. I also suspect that I know where their real weakness lies, and it might be an idea to question them in this specific area. If you were to start a new thread about putting Eusebius and Tertullian in a cell at Scotland Yard, I will certainly contribute.

But, we have their written statements. Inadvertently, they have confessed their errors.

This is Tertullian, or (?Eusebius?) in "On the Flesh of Christ" chapter 1

Quote:

Let us examine our Lord's bodily substance, for about His spiritual nature ALL are Agreed.

It is his Flesh that is in question.

Its verity and quality are the points in dispute.

Did it ever exist? Whence was it derived? And of what kind was it?

Everyone has agreed that Jesus was Divine during the reign of Tiberius, but it is not certain if he had human flesh, or where his flesh would come from or what kind of flesh Jesus had.

The probability of a Divine Jesus is zero, impossible. His flesh is irrelevant once he was claimed to be born of a virgin.

Tertullian (?Eusebius?) in "On the Flesh of Christ" ch 2.

Quote:

...The conception in the virgin's womb is also set plainly before us...

Sheshbazzar · 12-11-2008, 08:51 PM

Well at least old Tertullian was up to admitting that that was what the tale told,
and evidently he had somewhat the same tall-tale to work with that we do...
Doesn't mean that we have to swallow it just because he did.

View Poll Results: What do you think the probability of a historical Jesus is?
100% - I have complete faith that Jesus of Nazareth was a real person.	8	6.15%
80-100%	10	7.69%
60-80%	15	11.54%
40-60%	22	16.92%
20-40%	17	13.08%
0-20%	37	28.46%
o% - I have complete faith that Jesus of Nazareth was not a real person,	21	16.15%
Voters: 130. You may not vote on this poll

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12-11-2008, 12:12 PM	#307
Sheshbazzar Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: On the path of knowledge Posts: 8,889	Thanks, but I take little credit, as I only brought up and set in order, the better ideas that other men have long since offered, but tend to be forgotten in the face of silly religious arguments.

12-11-2008, 08:51 PM	#310
Sheshbazzar Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: On the path of knowledge Posts: 8,889	Well at least old Tertullian was up to admitting that that was what the tale told, and evidently he had somewhat the same tall-tale to work with that we do... Doesn't mean that we have to swallow it just because he did.

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