Freethought & Rationalism Archive

James Brown · 01-25-2012, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sotto voce

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesABrown

Quote:

Originally Posted by sotto voce

Quote:

Originally Posted by ApostateAbe

Point #4 I think is a good one. They don't break his legs because they think he is dead and they spear him to make sure he is dead?

That's not in the text.

John 19

Quote:

31 Now it was the day of Preparation, and the next day was to be a special Sabbath. Because the Jewish leaders did not want the bodies left on the crosses during the Sabbath, they asked Pilate to have the legs broken and the bodies taken down. 32 The soldiers therefore came and broke the legs of the first man who had been crucified with Jesus, and then those of the other. 33 But when they came to Jesus and found that he was already dead, they did not break his legs. 34 Instead, one of the soldiers pierced Jesus’ side with a spear, bringing a sudden flow of blood and water.

Does this add to the discussion?

Since the quote of the text contradicts your statement that ApostateAbe's observation does not appear in the text, yes it does add to the discussion.

sotto voce · 01-25-2012, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrsonic

Quote:

But when they came to Jesus and found that he was already dead, they did not break his legs. 34 Instead, one of the soldiers pierced Jesus’ side with a spear, bringing a sudden flow of blood and water.

they pierced jesus and forgot about what they claimed in mark and matthews account, "truly this was the son of god"

Can we see a quote of that?

sotto voce · 01-25-2012, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesABrown

Quote:

Originally Posted by sotto voce

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesABrown

Quote:

Originally Posted by sotto voce

Quote:

Originally Posted by ApostateAbe

Point #4 I think is a good one. They don't break his legs because they think he is dead and they spear him to make sure he is dead?

That's not in the text.

John 19

Quote:

31 Now it was the day of Preparation, and the next day was to be a special Sabbath. Because the Jewish leaders did not want the bodies left on the crosses during the Sabbath, they asked Pilate to have the legs broken and the bodies taken down. 32 The soldiers therefore came and broke the legs of the first man who had been crucified with Jesus, and then those of the other. 33 But when they came to Jesus and found that he was already dead, they did not break his legs. 34 Instead, one of the soldiers pierced Jesus’ side with a spear, bringing a sudden flow of blood and water.

Does this add to the discussion?

Since the quote of the text contradicts your statement that ApostateAbe's observation does not appear in the text

How does it do that?

James Brown · 01-25-2012, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrsonic

Quote:

But when they came to Jesus and found that he was already dead, they did not break his legs. 34 Instead, one of the soldiers pierced Jesus’ side with a spear, bringing a sudden flow of blood and water.

they pierced jesus and forgot about what they claimed in mark and matthews account, "truly this was the son of god"
john had to spear jesus because the first 2 accounts don't completely kill off jesus, even pilate suspects that jesus has died.

Ah, another puzzle. Pilate wants Jesus dead, and when he's told that Jesus is dead, he's surprised to hear that Jesus is dead.

andrewcriddle · 01-25-2012, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesABrown

Ah, another puzzle. Pilate wants Jesus dead, and when he's told that Jesus is dead, he's surprised to hear that Jesus is dead.

Pilate is surprised at Jesus dying so quickly.

Crucifixion was an intentionally slow means of execution. One could linger in pain for more than a day.

Andrew Criddle

Chili · 01-25-2012, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sotto voce

He wasn't made to do that. A whole cross was much too heavy.

It has been said that only a hunchback can carry it, who became a hunchback by creating those shepherds in his imagination.

steve_bnk · 01-25-2012, 12:00 PM

Zero.

mrsonic · 01-25-2012, 12:01 PM

Quote:

But when they came to Jesus and found that he was already dead, they did not break his legs. 34 Instead, one of the soldiers pierced Jesus’ side with a spear, bringing a sudden flow of blood and water.

Quote:

they pierced jesus and forgot about what they claimed in mark and matthews account, "truly this was the son of god"

Quote:

Can we see a quote of that?

you christians say that john witnessed the crucifixion. if he could finnish off your god by having a pagan roman pierce his side, then why was it difficult for him to include
"truly this was the son of god" ?

Chili · 01-25-2012, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrsonic

"You just publicly declared that you don't consider him to be the King of the Jews; he has publicly declared he is not the King of the Jews; and I have officially, publicly declared that he has committed no Roman crime. The record is clear, fuck you."

"Then we shall riot!"

"Beside the fact that I already anticipated such a possibility on this day particularly, because I'm not a fucking idiot, you mean you're going to riot if I don't kill the completely innocent man that you all agree is not your 'King' even though you all supposedly love him so much that if you found out that your leaders had conspired to try and kill him (as I just told you was precisely what they did) you'd riot against them, but now, inexplicably are not going to, because you're all just so susceptible to 'office politics' that don't yet exist? Gee, I never thought of that possibility on this the most militarily prepared day of the year for such a contingency. GUARDS!"

mrsonic: sotto , have thought of the possibility that jesus was a terrorist and not an innocent lamb?

Well, he was an insurrectionist and in John the crucifixion was 'to his owm pleasure' and Golding called it "as easy as eating and drinking" in 'The Spire" and maybe is why Jesus said in Luke: "as I am so I am sending you" while showing them the evidence of his wounds, so they would too and do it with a smile and not in urgency.

Chili · 01-25-2012, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrsonic

Quote:

But when they came to Jesus and found that he was already dead, they did not break his legs. 34 Instead, one of the soldiers pierced Jesus’ side with a spear, bringing a sudden flow of blood and water.

Quote:

they pierced jesus and forgot about what they claimed in mark and matthews account, "truly this was the son of god"

Quote:

Can we see a quote of that?

you christians say that john witnessed the crucifixion. if he could finnish off your god by having a pagan roman pierce his side, then why was it difficult for him to include
"truly this was the son of god" ?

Because he was not the son of God who Jesus introduced to Mary from the cross to be the guy standing beside her below the cross.

So do you think these Romans killed the wrong guy or what?

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01-25-2012, 12:00 PM	#27
steve_bnk Contributor Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Seattle Posts: 27,602	Zero.

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