Infiel

I don't know if you could use the Hank thing while still being respectful, but its really a very good analogy.

http://www.jhuger.com/kisshankbutt.mv

Jeremy_the _Atheist

It is almost pretty good analogy of door to door preaching but from what I understand, that isn't very effective anyway. Most people that get religious were already predisposed toward it in someway earlier in thier life. A Christian would recognize this as being a good analogy of Islam but not Christianity.

Thank you but I think I will pass.

rlogan

If you cannot use the glaring creationist canards in opposition to the evolutionary evidence, then these people are hopeless and there is no point to the presentation.

It is by far the best evidence that the Bible is myth. It's evidence.

The earth is 4.5 Billion years old, not six thousand.

The phylogeny of cladistics matches that of genetics. Why?

Fossils are real things, not satanic corruptions.

Etc.

Jeremy_the _Atheist

yeah, I'm going to talk a little about creationism, mainly focusing on that it presents a false version of evolution and that so-called "Creation Science" has never produced anything of value, i. e. new technology, new medicine, etc.

4God

Jeremy...As a Christian...I think I'll give you a couple helpful hints.

1. Talk about why you personally reject "God".
2. Refute every "experience" each person has had with "God". Ask them to talk about how they've experienced God and refute each one step by step.
3. Creationism-It's not a huge stumbling block for most Christians. What many fail to realize is that Christianity is a faith based upon fact and faith. Do we know the exact length of each of the six days? No. Dinosaurs-Many will illustrate different portions of the Bible implying dinosaurs. So, in my opinion creationism doesn't do it....Instead, a testimony of the complete randomness of the world and how it has arrived at it's current destination. If the world is random, then there is no design, hence no designer. If no designer, there is no "good", there is no "evil"(everything is relative). And if there is no designer, or good and evil, then no need for a sacrifice. Finally, no need for a sacrifice, no need for God.

Prove all of this, and you've got them won.


.....But, I think if you look closely-you'll find the proof for the very thing in which you were trying to repudiate.



p.s. What an amazing church that would bring you in. Truth should always be tested and i'm glad this place is bringing you for just that. Good luck.

Jeremy_the _Atheist

4god,

If your not interest in helping, why did you bother to even post? I'm asking for real advice from people. If you don't have any, then why waste your time posting and my time reading it?

I can't reject that which does not exist. I noticed the wording of this. If you really have the education you claim to have, you ought to know better.

I could do this easily but only if the time permitted and if the perfect recalled the entire situation and all factors involved with perfect accurate. But time doesn't permit and if the person could do this, they'll be an atheist already.

Also, I'm sure the terrorists that killed 3000 people on 9/11/01 probably had personal experiences with god.

But the point was never to prove that God exists. The goal is get them to raise enough questions to get them to go into the library.

When you say things like this, do you have any goal other to to display your complete and total ignorance concerning evolution and creationism?

Did you even read my notes?

People, please, if you have nothing useful to say please don't post. I'm not interested in playing games on this thread.

Viti

I have quite a bit of experience speaking to groups, and speaking to fundies, but never about religion.

Hmmm...I would start off with an story, something everyone can relate and agree with (get them nodding their heads or saying "Yes"), then end it with something that makes them uncomfortable that they were agreeing with it.

I have seen this done effectively but can't think of an exact example right now...but something along the lines of a tenet of Islam that is strikingly similar to Christianity, then ending that story with "so says the Holy Qu'ran and the prophet Mohammed". Or a miracle story where a praying child is saved from certain death but was praying to some other deity (there should be some miracle glurge for more than Chrsitianity out on the web). Make them see that their religious beliefs are not so different from others. This hook, will then ensure they are listening for the rest of your speech.

Also, try not to read your speech. Speaking in a conversational style and making eye contact is much more effective.

trendkill

I'd dump the stuff about the nature of the Universe not pointing towards purpose. Say the word "cosmology" and they'll probably tune out.

I think it would be a big mistake to tell them to "imagine" telling a 10-year-old child about Hell. This is something they do regularly, and it probably starts a lot younger than 10. You'd basically be accusing them of child abuse, and while it would probably be a true accusation, I guarantee it wouldn't go over well.

I like the parts about indoctrination, misdirection, and the unclear criteria for salvation. These could be offensive, but if any of the audience are openminded at all, it might pay to try to help them see from a skeptic's perspective. I think there are probably many Christians who consider disbelief in God, not just wrong, but completely irrational. You don't necessarily have to show them that Christianity is false to convince them that this isn't so. You might even ask them to try to put themselves in your shoes and ask them what's so unreasonable about the conclusions you draw from the facts you have listed.

seebs

Do you know whether this is a creationist audience?

The problem I see is this:
* If they're mostly theistic evolutionists, they won't give a fuck about the creation/evolution stuff. They already resolved that issue, in the obvious way. Preaching to the choir.
* If they're mostly creationists, you're hitting one of the most heavily-defended parts of their religious model, and they will discard anything you say thereafter if you express the idea that creation isn't science.

Infiel

I don't have enough experience to know what to say, but I'll bounce a few comments:

If you are very respectful and nice, people are more likely to listen to you. I have great respect for both Till and Barker, however Barker usually comes across better, as he is (I think) a little more respectful of their ridiculous beliefs.

I dunno if you can put this quote in: "it is a telling fact that, the world over, the vast majority of children follow the religion of their parents rather than any of the other available religions" (Dawkins).

The attrocities in the OT eg

Num 5: The test for adultery is only done on the woman- they poison her and see if she lives, to determine if she was adulterer.

Num 31: God commands genocide of Midianites, Moses orders that virgins be kept, other captives slain

Although I'm sure you already had them in mind