Gamera

No, really, I'm just confronting what the gospel message says and sticking with that. I don't have to figure out God to respond to the message.

Gamera

It's not the most interesting topic. Who knows about God?

The gospel message however is interesting (and to me as a Christian the source of my salvation). The gospel message merely confronts us with the premise that God loves us and that love can transform us. Since I exist and my existence is meaningful, seems to me in fact God is loving. Love is an existentielle, a constituent part of what it means to exist, not an imperical fact in the world.

That's about all I can say about God, and then one can choose to accept that love or reject it. Such is the choice posited by the gospel.

jakejonesiv

Hi Gamera,

No, I don't want to talk about the gospel message with you. You refuse to discuss Christian origins (my interest) and I find your interpretation of modern Christianity uninteresting.

Jake Jones IV

DramaQ

Um...

And then....

I guess THAT'S what the difference is how old they are.... :huh:

dq

Johnny Skeptic

But God is not concerned whether or not people hear the Gospel message. If he were, he would not have allowed hundreds of millions of people to die without having heard it. In 75 A.D., how in the world could people living in China have heard the Gospel message? Human effort is a very ineffective means by which to spread a message that everyone in the world supposedly desperately needs.

2 Peter 3:9 says that God is not willing that any should perish. That is obviously a lie. The word "perish" refers to the next life. If you disagree with that, I can quote a number of Scriptures that show that Jesus, Paul, and Peter mentioned the next life on numerous occasions. You most certainly cannot claim that God is not willing that any should die without hearing the Gospel message.

Humans have tangible needs, not just spiritual needs. Matthew 14:14 says "And Jesus went forth, and saw a great multitude, and was moved with compassion toward them, and he healed their sick." Matthew 15:32-38 say "Then Jesus called his disciples unto him, and said, I have compassion on the multitude, because they continue with me now three days, and have nothing to eat: and I will not send them away fasting, lest they faint in the way. And his disciples say unto him, Whence should we have so much bread in the wilderness, as to fill so great a multitude? And Jesus saith unto them, How many loaves have ye? And they said, Seven, and a few little fishes. And he commanded the multitude to sit down on the ground. And he took the seven loaves and the fishes, and gave thanks, and brake them, and gave to his disciples, and the disciples to the multitude. And they did all eat, and were filled: and they took up of the broken meat that was left seven baskets full. And they that did eat were four thousand men, beside women and children."

Loving human parents are concerned with their children's tangible needs, not just their spiritual needs. Today, the best evidence indicates that tangible needs are distributed entirely at random according the laws of physics without any regard whatsoever for a person's worldview, which is exactly what is to be expected if God does not exist. Spritual blessings are subjective, and are claimed by the followers of many religions.

Consider the following Scriptures:

John 2:23 Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, in the feast day, many believed in his name, when they saw the miracles which he did. (KJV)

John 3:2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him. (KJV)

John 10:37-38 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him. (KJV)

Acts 14:3 So Paul and Barnabas spent considerable time there, speaking boldly for the Lord, who confirmed the message of his grace by enabling them to do miraculous signs and wonders. (NIV)

Johnny: Obviously, God is concerned with providing a good deal of TANGIBLE evidence, not just SPIRITUAL evidence as you claim. It is interesting to note that Acts 14:3 refers to events that took place AFTER the Holy Spirit came to the church. You should try reading the Bible once in a while. You might learn something.

Doug Shaver

I've seen you talk about texs. I will thank you not to assume that I think about them the way you think about them.

You used the word first. What did you mean by it?
It could not be more relevant to whether you have a valid argument.
There is no issue of why they are better unless they are in fact better. Your argument can have no validity unless you affirm that a loving person is better than an unloving person. Do you so affirm?

aa5874

You have not even established that your Gods can hear, and have the audacity to claim that there is a choice. You are just as superstitious as any tribe anywhere in the world.

There is no difference between a person who believes that the blood of a young goat can drive away evil spirits and your belief in Jesus. The are basic vodoo like systems.

Gamera, your God cannot hear, well at least he never talks to you.

Ignostic Morgan

:huh: Our skeptic posts:angel: :notworthy: answer quite well the inerrantist:banghead: .Their brain shield of fatih keeps them enthrall to theism.Their egos are so involved that they cannot read their scriptures in context.In context.They :huh: .The modern wold has eclipsed them!:wave:

Johnny Skeptic

If you provide credible evidence that God EVER instituted an effective plan for spreading the Gospel message, then you will have something worthwhile to say. Otherwise, all that you have is propaganda. How dare you claim that non-Christians are not as loving as Christians are? Some of the most loving, kind people in the world are non-Christians.

I know that you do not like discussing the Old Testament, and I do not blame you. However, Jesus spoke about Moses, and God told Moses to kill anyone who worked on the Sabbath Day, and to kill anyone who cursed at their parents. Old Testament Jews were God's chosen people. In your opinion, were they generally loving people? In your opinion, did God give Moses the Ten Commandments? In your opinion, is there life after death?

Since you want people to hear about the Gospel message, how much of your money have you spent spreading it? How much of your money have you spent feeding hungry people, or doesn't that matter to you?

In your opinion, what is the Gospel message? Please quote chapter and verse.

jakejonesiv

2 Peter 3:9 is just an excuse for a failed prophecy.
And it doesn't even make sense. Presumably, in each new generation God would not want any to perish, and so while waiting for them to repent a new generation comes along ad infinitum.

Jake Jones IV