Magus55

It isn't impossible with God and until you can disprove His existence, it leaves a huge opening for the so called impossible. Can you prove its just a story, or is that your opinion?

Magus55

Floods don't happen? Dang, tell that to all the people that have lost lives and houses to them.

Biff the unclean

Because it doesn't demand I suspend my intelligence, only accept that there is a supernatural aspect to it also.
You've just contradicted yourself. Your claims of magic is you suspending your intelligence. There is an audible click as your brain puts up a fire wall between it and any facts that threaten your superstitions.

If you don't like my opinions and beliefs, how about you butt out? Especially since I don't particularly care what you think about them.
I've read your whining about me on RR. You care.
I don't butt out because I find your misanthrope and anti-intellectualism that you disguise as a religion to be an affront to all mankind. It is my duty to speak out against it.

Bernard Muller

Magus55 wrote:
Who designs todays ships? Humans. Who designed Noah's ship? God.

According to Genesis6:14-16, God does not really give detailed instructions to Noah, nothing about how to make the ship structurally sound and leak proof, or how pumps should be designed.

NKJV Gen6:14-16 ... 22 "Make yourself an ark of gopherwood; make rooms in the ark, and cover it inside and outside with pitch. And this is how you shall make it: The length of the ark shall be three hundred cubits, its width fifty cubits, and its height thirty cubits. You shall make a window for the ark, and you shall finish it to a cubit from above; and set the door of the ark in its side. You shall make it with lower, second, and third decks. ...
Noah did everything just as God commanded him."

I think God is quite capable of creating a ship that can remain seaworthy.

According to Genesis6:14-16, it is Noah who is creating & building the ark, not God.

Especially considering He gave Noah 120 years to do it.

I could not find any biblical reference that Noah had 120 years to build the ark.
The 120 years of Gen6:3 cannot refer to what you claim, because Noah is 500 four verses earlier and 600 during the flood. And God asks Noah to build the ark after Noah is 500. The math does not match.

Have you seen on the discovering channel they are trying to design the plans for a "city" on water? Its essentially New York on the largest flat ship ever built. Other than a few problems here and there, and the incredible expense ( multi-billions of dollars) - architects and designers believe it could be sea worthy. It was completely flat, and was longer, wider, and heavier than any ship ever designed before.

We are talking about modern technology here, steel and not wood, and not Mesopotamia before the dawn of civilization. And I bet this monstruous ship will have pumps to take out the water.
And the architects/designers are not going to say to the builders: OK, this ship shall be that long, that wide, that high. Make a roof, that many doors & windows here and there. Make that many decks. And do not forget to coat with pitch inside and out.

And they don't even have God's help in building it. Noah's ark is not that inconceivable when being guided by a supreme intelligence.

Genesis does not say God helps in the construction. According to Genesis6:14-16,22 Noah is on his own to build the ark.

Best regards, Bernard

Calzaer

For the slower kids in the class:

"established borders that the waters don't pass to ever again flood the earth" = no more floods.

Why?

Because those 'borders' don't actually exist in any concrete form. If the waters can break free of them just a little bit, there's nothing stopping them from breaking free all the way again.

Interesting to note that Psalms 104 also says the clouds are God's chariots. Funny how we've never seen God riding a cloud. And if the winds are his messengers, why does he need missionaries? And if fire is his minister, that certainly explains why witches and Jews were burned at the stake. But why do church's need priests, then? Bonfires are lots cheaper. How much can I learn about God by watching a fire? Well, ok *I* can learn alot, but how much could a Christian learn? Maybe God's admitting the pagans are right, with that line.

Psalms 104 also says the moon is responsible for the seasons, and that the sun actually sets in a specific place (Psalms 104:19).

Oh, and where's the Leviathan (104:26)? Surely we should have found it by NOW...

Ooh! And earthquakes are caused by God looking at the earth (104:32).

It's also nice to notice that neither God nor anyone claiming to speak for God is narrating here. But that's irrelevant, isn't it, since God was apparently giving dictation.

So tell us, Magus, how much of Psalms 104 are we supposed to take literally? And who told you that, because the Bible certainly doesn't say.

Biff the unclean

OoooooH you mean floods do happen then?
So I guess whoever said
The Bible does say God commanded the waters to receed. He raised the mountains, and lowered the ocean basins and land valleys. It says God established borders that the waters don't pass to ever again flood the earth ( lakes, seas, oceans, bays )
wasn't telling the truth. What a surprise

Weltall

Magus, try to read this very slowly. A ship ~450 feet long made exclusively out of wood will sink. It doesn't matter who fucking builds it, the hull won't be able to sustain its integrity NO MATTER HOW YOU PUT IT TOGETHER. Got it? Now, that 'city on water' you're talking about, haven't heard of it but I'm willing to bet that they would be using much stronger materials than wood so it's ok that it's larger than your Ark.

cjack

This is just getting silly.


I'm beginning to wonder why you're participating in these threads at all.

It is clear that you take the Genesis version of the Flood story as literally true. Every single word (to you) is the absolute and unquestionable truth.

No matter what sort of logic is presented, you fall back on the same position:

"Impossible? Not with God! Now its up to you wicked anti-theists to conclusively prove God doesn't exist...until then, the Flood actually happened exactly as described."

Then you get your panties in a wad when we have the temerity to question your beliefs.


Hello? Earth to Magus? Take a careful look at the Infidels front page. Especially the part where it says "Our goal is to defend and promote a nontheistic worldview which holds that the natural world is all there is, a closed system in no need of a supernatural explanation and sufficient unto itself."


You're in a community made up of people who do two things you'll probably never do:

1. Honestly question the literal truth of the Bible.

2. Reject it as a source of objective history or science.


Yet when you present your arguments regarding the Flood, you're demanding that we accept the Bible as literally true!

You're asking that we believe with all our hearts in your God and cease our questioning altogether.


Note to Magus: If we did this, we'd be hangin' with you at Rapture Ready!

:banghead:


Along with plenty of good, Gawd-fearin' Christians and a good percentage of Jews, we've concluded that the Flood story is just a flood story.

If you can't accept that, you should probably ignore these threads in the future.

Tod

Really? Well I read Psalms 104 twice, and I didn't find the verses that said YHWH raised any mountains or lowered any valleys. I see nothing at all that refers to "establish[ing] borders that waters don't pass to ever again flood the earth."

What specific verses say anything like that? There is clearly references to the flood myth when it speaks of "the waters overtopping the mountains," and "waters...flowing over mountains, down valleys..." (vs. 6-8), but there isn't even the slightest implication of mountains raising, after the flood or otherwise. Where you get the business about "etablished borders that waters don't pass to ever again flood the earth," from this chapter, I have no idea. Please be more specific with your references.

rlogan

First of all, for you doubting thomas', the ark has been found:

http://www.wyattmuseum.com/noahs-ark-07.htm

So we are forced to work from that premise, and we need now to turn our attention to important consequent matters of science. Please accept that my work here is only preliminary in nature.

I have determined, with peer review here, that the Ark held food for approximately 1,500 pairs of animals.

Assuming away the animals themselves is without loss of generality and moreover provides the solution to a host of problems (e.g. excrement, ventilation, husbandry, etc.)

Some pressing problems in species evolution may now be solved. If there are 1,500 species to begin with, then re-populating the earth with one hundred thousand species in one year's time implies just under 50% rate of new species origin per month.

That this happened once is encouraging for mankind - because it can therefore happen again. I am making this a preliminary finding while I check biblical sources for the length of time for re-populating the earth.

I would suggest giving Magus55 a break. I have already shown the existence of the book of "Noah's Ark", still awaiting rediscovery. We cannot continue to harp on the seaworthiness of the ship until:

1) We establish the material properties of gopher wood.

2) We examine "Noah's Book" for structural details there not central to the biblical account.