Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Secular Elation · 02-14-2004, 10:26 AM

Quote:

FALLUJAH, Iraq - Guerrillas shouting �God is great� launched a bold daylight assault Saturday on an Iraqi police station and a security compound west of Baghdad, meeting little resistance as they gunned down policemen and freed prisoners in a battle that killed 21 people, police said. Most of the dead were police officers.

My question is--doesn't the Qu'ran have a similar law to the Bible stating that 'thou shall not kill?'

It is situations like this when Richard Dawkins' words in the endnotes to his The Selfish Gene reverberate in my head.

Quote:

[I]t is capable of driving people to such dangerous folly that faith seems to me to qualify as a kind of mental illness. It leads people to believe in whatever it is so strongly that in extreme cases they are prepared to kill and to die for it without the need for further justification. Keith Henson has coined the name 'memoids' for 'victims that have been taken over by a meme to th extent that their own survival becomes inconsequential...You see lots of these people on the evening news from such places as Belfast or Beirut.' Faith is powerful enough to immunize people against all appeals to pity, to forgiveness, to decent human feelings. It even immunizes them against fear, if they honestly believe that a martyr's death will send them straight to heaven. What a weapon! Religious faith deserves a chapter to itself in the annals of war technology, on an even footing with the longbow, the warhorse, the tank, and the hydrogen bomb.

Heurismus · 02-14-2004, 04:08 PM

A bit of Saladin might not go amiss here, or what about Richard the III, Barbarossa and all crusading Crusty the clowners.
I do not say this lightly, nor do I forget all who are dying tonight due to some misinterpreted words and factional hatreds. If you removed God from the equation there would still be political ideologies to control/mislead the masses.

Secular Elation · 02-14-2004, 09:14 PM

Yes. But there would be one less. And a big one at that.

Heurismus · 02-14-2004, 09:34 PM

Understand what you say and I do not disagree wholly.

As to Hobbes's cardinal virtues of war being 'force and fraud' this one (Iraq) should have been done properly. I'll leave that open to see what you say to the fraud bit first, but I refer to Hobbe's quote initially.

Heurismus · 02-17-2004, 03:16 PM

I'll clarify that last remark.

I have never doubted our armed forces, coming from a military background myself, nor have I really doubted good intel. It's just what our political masters do with it. Didn't LBJ believe that the CIA was full of Commies etc. etc. etc. And when a certain Being/Thing/It starts whispering in someones ear, I cannot ascribe to religious Crusades. Remember that slip of the tongue by Jawgee Boy?

There is the further aspect, much critcised by millions; 'what in that tiny mind were you thinking of? Did you actually realise Alabama ANG guy that you hid once but History will never let you hide now, never!!!

As to the war, after initially registering my complaint, I have backed the troops to the hilt. But our masters will have to realise that we can't Kop out now... we are in this until we die.

Just a small backup to the remarks a little bit...http://<br /> http://www.britains-s...ietnam/rum.htm

5th posting down. (Damn just tried it, link doesn't work)
www.britains-smallwars.com/Vietnam/rum.htm try that!

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02-14-2004, 04:08 PM	#2
Heurismus Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: West London Posts: 2,337	A bit of Saladin might not go amiss here, or what about Richard the III, Barbarossa and all crusading Crusty the clowners. I do not say this lightly, nor do I forget all who are dying tonight due to some misinterpreted words and factional hatreds. If you removed God from the equation there would still be political ideologies to control/mislead the masses.

02-14-2004, 09:14 PM	#3
Secular Elation Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: California Posts: 6,196	Yes. But there would be one less. And a big one at that.

02-14-2004, 09:34 PM	#4
Heurismus Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: West London Posts: 2,337	Understand what you say and I do not disagree wholly. As to Hobbes's cardinal virtues of war being 'force and fraud' this one (Iraq) should have been done properly. I'll leave that open to see what you say to the fraud bit first, but I refer to Hobbe's quote initially.

02-17-2004, 03:16 PM	#5
Heurismus Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: West London Posts: 2,337	I'll clarify that last remark. I have never doubted our armed forces, coming from a military background myself, nor have I really doubted good intel. It's just what our political masters do with it. Didn't LBJ believe that the CIA was full of Commies etc. etc. etc. And when a certain Being/Thing/It starts whispering in someones ear, I cannot ascribe to religious Crusades. Remember that slip of the tongue by Jawgee Boy? There is the further aspect, much critcised by millions; 'what in that tiny mind were you thinking of? Did you actually realise Alabama ANG guy that you hid once but History will never let you hide now, never!!! As to the war, after initially registering my complaint, I have backed the troops to the hilt. But our masters will have to realise that we can't Kop out now... we are in this until we die. Just a small backup to the remarks a little bit...http://<br /> http://www.britains-s...ietnam/rum.htm 5th posting down. (Damn just tried it, link doesn't work) www.britains-smallwars.com/Vietnam/rum.htm try that!

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