IamMoose

Am rereading Stephen King's 'It' right now - excellent book - and one of the characters makes an interesting observation .. this is my paraphrase cos I don't have it in front of me right now:

'You can go to your churches and read about your Jesus walking on water but if I saw a man do that, I wouldn't call it a miracle. I would call it an offence .'

That really struck me because that puts into words something I have felt subconsciously for years but have never really been able to articulate. Walking on water, feeding five thousand with one loaf and a cpl fishes, coming back from the dead .. these things are offences against logic. I would not, if I saw them, fall down and praise God - I would be frightened, and wary, but also .. yeah, offended because they would be things that went against everything that I understand and believe about the world.

More to the point, I sometimes think there's an element of doublethink involved in the ability to read and believe the bible. Christians might believe, on the conscious level, that these things happened but on the subconscious level I wonder if they really expect to ever see such a thing themselves.. if they really believe that such things can really BE.

Am i making any sense? *looks slightly unsure*

Y.B

Kinda... meaning that it would be scary. And yeah, now that I think about it, 'offenced' is actually a good description of what I'd feel. Never thought of that before.

Hedshaker

You make greeat sense. What sort of a God would create nature with all it's beauty only to then defile it through miracles just to show off?

:thumbs:

Orbit

IamMoose

Yeah. I don't mean offence, obviously, in the term that it's popularly used, ie a crime or something. But just something that's .. I dunno, that's offence to my senses and my sense of logic because it shouldn't be, it ISN'T physically possible...

Alethias

If i saw jesus heal the sick or walk on water or feed 1000's with a few fish and a loaf of bread, i'd just assume is was done by some type of technology that was beyond my knowledge and awareness. More importantly, I would not assume it was actually a miracle.

IamMoose

I think I'd assume that I'd finally had one beer too many and was having DTs

sharon45

I agree with both.

Showing off is what jesus does a lot whether with miracles or with asserting his supposed knowledge and wisdom.

Also as in the offense that he attacks logic. Much of what he says and does is either not needed, impossible, ignorant, contradictory, not supported, a lie, or redundant.

I take offense to these because:

1. The miracles are an example of too little too late.

2. The miracles say nothing about the proformer's real mission, identity, and integrity.

3. A lot of these miracles contradict some of his teachings and the OT teachings.

4. His supposed knowledge and wisdom often conflicts with itself, himself, and with OT teachings.

5. His supposed knowledge and wisdom often conflicts with his supposed real mission, identity, and integrity.

The NT is at war with logic.

MonCapitan2002

More than likely, that would be the case. If someone from a bronze age civilisation were to see a plane take off, he or she would likely consider that to be some kind of miracle. I think I remember hearing of a phrase that a sufficiently advanced technology would appear to be magic to those too unsophisticated to understand it.

IamMoose

I saw David Blaine levitate on TV and though I did an exhaustive google search, I still have no clue as to how it was done .. though it was cool . I am damn sure it was not a miracle though *

*does anyone know how it IS done?

IamMoose

They do? that sounds really interesting . .which ones and how?