Freethought & Rationalism Archive

sotto voce · 10-01-2012, 05:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clivedurdle

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Society is always based on economy

Commie!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19786929

Quote:

Historian Eric Hobsbawm dies, aged 95

"We are all Marxists now." Sir Alec Douglas-Home, British Prime Minister

.

anethema · 10-01-2012, 05:44 AM

there is a real cognitive dissonance in the US in the political discourse regarding regarding religion. in a country based on seperation of church and state the easiest way to appear patriotic is to show off your religiosity. not your particular sect mind you, because then it gets sticky, but your belief in the supernatural. i know this isnt news to anyone here, but i just wonder if any of our UK and euro friends really appreciate the dichotomy and mindset.

sotto voce · 10-01-2012, 05:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anethema

there is a real cognitive dissonance in the US in the political discourse regarding regarding religion. in a country based on seperation of church and state the easiest way to appear patriotic is to show off your religiosity. not your particular sect mind you, because then it gets sticky, but your belief in the supernatural. i know this isnt news to anyone here, but i just wonder if any of our UK and euro friends really appreciate the dichotomy and mindset.

Europeans with historic sense appreciate this, because Europe has been through it, and is very glad to see the back of it. There is sympathy for thinking Americans.

But they do have the compensation of cheap petrol!

Clivedurdle · 10-01-2012, 06:38 AM

Hmm, high taxes on fuel leads to atheism.....

sotto voce · 10-01-2012, 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clivedurdle

Hmm, high taxes on fuel leads to atheism.....

That solves the problem, then!

Clivedurdle · 10-01-2012, 07:08 AM

Actually, I have very easily come up with scenarios that support that! High taxes, if spent properly, should lead to better government services, infrastructure, education, and therefore less need to rely on superstitious solutions to life issues.

So good governance cannot help but weaken religion.

Clivedurdle · 10-01-2012, 07:14 AM

Quote:

t is not entirely an accident that the country that is most capitalist is also the most obsessed with Christianity, and notoriously hypocritical about it

Is there a subtext to free marketeers of religion? I cannot get my head around why Stiglitz, Krugman, Keynes etc are not listened to, and why in UK Labour is kowtowing to these Tory free market ideals.

Gods well hidden in the background might be the missing piece of the equation.

Clivedurdle · 10-01-2012, 07:22 AM

Back to the Op, can they actually say anything different? Can they be authentic?

From their homepage

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“preparing persons for leadership in the ministry of The UMC, . . . leading in the ongoing reflection on Wesleyan theology; and . . . assisting the church in fulfilling its mission to make disciples of Jesus Christ for the transformation of the world . . . for the sake of the worldwide mission of the church.” Furthermore, “all candidates for ordination as deacon or elder in The UMC are strongly encouraged to attend UM schools of theology since these schools share . . . in the work of preparing persons for ordination and leadership in The UMC.” (

sotto voce · 10-01-2012, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clivedurdle

Actually, I have very easily come up with scenarios that support that! High taxes, if spent properly, should lead to better government services, infrastructure, education, and therefore less need to rely on superstitious solutions to life issues.

So good governance cannot help but weaken religion.

But describing religion as superstitious strengthens religion, if you think about it.

Though it is true, that people who have much materially often, though not always, see little need for spiritual assistance. But, of course, they could be wrong.

Sheshbazzar · 10-01-2012, 07:34 AM

Quote:

“preparing persons for leadership in the ministry of The UMC, . . . leading in the ongoing reflection on Wesleyan theology; and . . . assisting the church in fulfilling its mission to make disciples of Jesus Christ for the transformation of the world . . . for the sake of the worldwide mission of the church.” Furthermore, “all candidates for ordination as deacon or elder in The UMC are strongly encouraged to attend UM schools of theology since these schools share . . . in the work of preparing persons for ordination and leadership in The UMC.”

Geezuz. Could they contrive a wordier way to simply say; 'Attend UM schools of theology to get your brain filled with garbage to spew to the yokels back home.'

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10-01-2012, 05:44 AM	#162
anethema Regular Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: ohio Posts: 112	there is a real cognitive dissonance in the US in the political discourse regarding regarding religion. in a country based on seperation of church and state the easiest way to appear patriotic is to show off your religiosity. not your particular sect mind you, because then it gets sticky, but your belief in the supernatural. i know this isnt news to anyone here, but i just wonder if any of our UK and euro friends really appreciate the dichotomy and mindset.

10-01-2012, 06:38 AM	#164
Clivedurdle Contributor Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: London UK Posts: 16,024	Hmm, high taxes on fuel leads to atheism.....

10-01-2012, 07:08 AM	#166
Clivedurdle Contributor Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: London UK Posts: 16,024	Actually, I have very easily come up with scenarios that support that! High taxes, if spent properly, should lead to better government services, infrastructure, education, and therefore less need to rely on superstitious solutions to life issues. So good governance cannot help but weaken religion.

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