Freethought & Rationalism Archive

winstonjen · 08-14-2003, 12:40 AM

What primarily motivates the 'pro-life' (or anti-choice) movement?
Is it a concern for the living, a fear of death, or something else?

My theory is that as it ignores the free will of the individuals involved, the religious arguments are invalid. It seems to be at least partly due to a desire for control over the lives of others. It could also be motivated by the brevity of life, despite medical advances in recent history to prolong it.

pariah · 08-14-2003, 01:17 AM

christianity. 90% of the fundy christians i have talked to said that they woudl freely kill if it wasnt in the ten commandments.

winstonjen · 08-14-2003, 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by pariahSS
christianity. 90% of the fundy christians i have talked to said that they woudl freely kill if it wasnt in the ten commandments.

Methinks it's time for 'reverse brainwashing.'

The way to change their minds is to use their family in a hypothetical example.

xorbie · 08-14-2003, 01:41 AM

I said other, and I do think that even if you ignore the fundies, there are valid points for being pro-life. I personally don't garee with them, but I refuse to simply ignore the arguments and assume pro-lifers are of the religious fanatic variety (and I'm not saying this is what you are doing). The pro-life argument is actually not very easy to handle.

Peter Kirby · 08-14-2003, 01:45 AM

A difference of opinion about what constitutes "human life." And cultural/personal/religious influences, of course. Under the idea that it motivates some people, I chose "a concern for life." Don't got any stats for most.

best,
Peter Kirby

winstonjen · 08-14-2003, 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by xorbie
I said other, and I do think that even if you ignore the fundies, there are valid points for being pro-life. I personally don't garee with them, but I refuse to simply ignore the arguments and assume pro-lifers are of the religious fanatic variety (and I'm not saying this is what you are doing). The pro-life argument is actually not very easy to handle.

Which argument? Their arguments against abortion, stem cell research or euthanasia?

Theli · 08-14-2003, 06:32 AM

Quote:

Which argument? Their arguments against abortion, stem cell research or euthanasia?

I think those sciences threaten a certain view of human life, people may feel that humans are being devalued if they are treated like any other part of nature. Most morality present today is based on the notion that a human life is physically and existentially different from nature (soul).
On one level, I guess fear of death may be part of the reason as immortality in traditional religious philosophy require the soul to be external to nature.

JerryM · 08-14-2003, 11:44 AM

I'm sure many pro-life people are motivated by a sincere belief that all human life is sacred and should be protected. But there is a darker side. The more radical pro-life elements oppose artificial birth control, comprehensive sex education, and almost anything that evinces greater openness about sexual matters. And this represents just good, old-fashioned puritanism and authoritarianism. There's still the idea that sex is sinful and dirty, and anything that promotes sexual freedom is wicked. If you have sex and get pregnant, that's your just deserts. Abortion is wrong because it makes it too easy (as if abortion is "easy") to avoid the consequences. And it's even worse because abortion gives women control over their sex lives, which clashes with an attitude of sexist authoritarianism.

Bad Kitty · 08-14-2003, 12:11 PM

I checked "genuine concern for the living." I can't speak for others, so I am speaking for myself only. I am pro-life in regards to abortion. I am an atheist. My pro-life stance has nothing to do with a pretend God. I believe strongly in open and comprehensive education about birth control and sex.

Quote:

Winstonjen: My theory is that as it ignores the free will of the individuals involved, the religious arguments are invalid.

This does not address motivation.

Quote:

Winstonjen: It seems to be at least partly due to a desire for control over the lives of others. It could also be motivated by the brevity of life, despite medical advances in recent history to prolong it.

Neither of these apply to me.

Michelle

Theli · 08-14-2003, 02:19 PM

Is it really called pro-life? If you are not a pro-life are you pro-death?

Anyway...
As you are an atheist pro-lifer I guess you could provide a good argument (or basis for your belief) against abortion, something this discussion often lacks.

One argument could be that with our ever improving capacity to detect deceases and possible flaws in unborn fetuses, and the following desire of parents to abort such a child in favour for a less "flawed" one, our respect for our offspring and the value we put on it will be reduced to that of computers and phones, that we can just send back if they are broken.
A similar argument could ofcourse be made against spermbanks where we shop for children. Any comments? thoughts?
I saw something similar to that on 60 minutes where two parents had sued their doctor for not telling them about a braindamage (or something similar, can't really remember) he had detected during the pregnancy. If they had known of the defect they would have aborted the child.
They got a million dollar settlement, but I wonder if they ever told the child how they got the money.

View Poll Results: What Motivates Them?
Fear of Death	6	8.70%
Genuine concern of the living	14	20.29%
Desire for Control	45	65.22%
Other (please elaborate)	4	5.80%
Voters: 69. You have already voted on this poll

08-14-2003, 12:40 AM	#1
winstonjen Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 3,425	Sanctity of Life What primarily motivates the 'pro-life' (or anti-choice) movement? Is it a concern for the living, a fear of death, or something else? My theory is that as it ignores the free will of the individuals involved, the religious arguments are invalid. It seems to be at least partly due to a desire for control over the lives of others. It could also be motivated by the brevity of life, despite medical advances in recent history to prolong it.

08-14-2003, 02:19 PM	#10
Theli Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Sweden Posts: 2,567	TheBigZoo Is it really called pro-life? If you are not a pro-life are you pro-death? Anyway... As you are an atheist pro-lifer I guess you could provide a good argument (or basis for your belief) against abortion, something this discussion often lacks. One argument could be that with our ever improving capacity to detect deceases and possible flaws in unborn fetuses, and the following desire of parents to abort such a child in favour for a less "flawed" one, our respect for our offspring and the value we put on it will be reduced to that of computers and phones, that we can just send back if they are broken. A similar argument could ofcourse be made against spermbanks where we shop for children. Any comments? thoughts? I saw something similar to that on 60 minutes where two parents had sued their doctor for not telling them about a braindamage (or something similar, can't really remember) he had detected during the pregnancy. If they had known of the defect they would have aborted the child. They got a million dollar settlement, but I wonder if they ever told the child how they got the money.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

08-14-2003, 01:17 AM	#2
pariah Banned Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: الرياض Posts: 6,456	christianity. 90% of the fundy christians i have talked to said that they woudl freely kill if it wasnt in the ten commandments.

08-14-2003, 01:41 AM	#4
xorbie Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Champaign, IL or Boston, MA Posts: 6,360	I said other, and I do think that even if you ignore the fundies, there are valid points for being pro-life. I personally don't garee with them, but I refuse to simply ignore the arguments and assume pro-lifers are of the religious fanatic variety (and I'm not saying this is what you are doing). The pro-life argument is actually not very easy to handle.

08-14-2003, 01:45 AM	#5
Peter Kirby Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: the reliquary of Ockham's razor Posts: 4,035	A difference of opinion about what constitutes "human life." And cultural/personal/religious influences, of course. Under the idea that it motivates some people, I chose "a concern for life." Don't got any stats for most. best, Peter Kirby

08-14-2003, 11:44 AM	#8
JerryM Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: St. Louis, MO. Posts: 1,100	I'm sure many pro-life people are motivated by a sincere belief that all human life is sacred and should be protected. But there is a darker side. The more radical pro-life elements oppose artificial birth control, comprehensive sex education, and almost anything that evinces greater openness about sexual matters. And this represents just good, old-fashioned puritanism and authoritarianism. There's still the idea that sex is sinful and dirty, and anything that promotes sexual freedom is wicked. If you have sex and get pregnant, that's your just deserts. Abortion is wrong because it makes it too easy (as if abortion is "easy") to avoid the consequences. And it's even worse because abortion gives women control over their sex lives, which clashes with an attitude of sexist authoritarianism.

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.