Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The Evil One · 11-21-2006, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KindBudz

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godless Dave
What about all the people who became (or were born) blind, deaf, or dumb from causes that had nothing to do with their own actions?

/Theist mode on

All people are born in sin so all those people deserve to have these afflictions. They may even be paying for sins from previous lives.

/Theist mode off

rhutchin's argument is actually much subtler than that. All those people who became blind, deaf or dumb from causes that had nothing to do with their own actions are themselves directly to blame because they didn't pray hard enough to God for protection in advance of the event.

Or somesuch guff.

11-21-2006, 03:34 PM

Especially the ones born that way. Evil foetuses, neglecting to pray. :devil:

The Evil One · 11-21-2006, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cajela

Especially the ones born that way. Evil foetuses, neglecting to pray. :devil:

Oh, he's got an answer to that. In that case, the blame lies directly with the other people who neglected to offer intercessionary prayers for those foetuses.

Believe me, it's airtight. It's batshit crazy but it's airtight.

Jobar · 11-21-2006, 06:45 PM

Rhutchin, what do you mean by 'sin'? As I understand it, sin is that which is displeasing in the sight of God.

By this definition we unbelievers don't think that sin exists. Evil, yes. Crime, yes. Wrongness of all sorts, yes. Those things can be defined without having to appeal to the judgement of some god. But not sin.

If I do something that's wrong by my own judgement, is that sin? I'm wondering if there might be some definition of sin that we atheists might find valid.

AthenaAwakened · 11-21-2006, 07:01 PM

I deal with my sin by giving my sin a stern talking to and then I send my sin to bed without supper.

Jack the Bodiless · 11-22-2006, 02:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhutchin

I'd like to see your sources of data on this. My guess is that you have none. When you say, "...as far as we know...," I suspect you mean that you do not know how much God is involved in preventing crimes and hurricanes.

I find such comments bizarre. I think Johnny knows exactly how much God is involved in preventing crimes and hurricanes.

And so do I.

post tenebras lux · 11-22-2006, 02:59 AM

Oh great: rhutchin - a Calvinist (or so he claims, ref: predestination) - believes in intercessory prayer. :rolling:

Good job I'm as likely to be a Justified Sinner as he has of being one of The Elect or I'd be in a terrible tangle trying to work out if I should ask him to pray for me.

Jedi Mind Trick · 11-22-2006, 05:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by post tenebras lux

Oh great: rhutchin - a Calvinist (or so he claims, ref: predestination) - believes in intercessory prayer. :rolling:

My thoughts also, after reading his profile... rhutchin also made some statments in his OP that were very close to freewill-ism... How can a calvinist appeal to freewill?

post tenebras lux · 11-22-2006, 08:05 AM

He appears to have a 'phobia' when it comes to full (aka 'double') predestination. But I may be misreading him: it's quite possible that he just has a 'philia' for freewill and the right to choose.

Worldtraveller · 11-22-2006, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AthenaAwakened

I deal with my sin by giving my sin a stern talking to and then I send my sin to bed without supper.

[not so obsure Monty Python reference]ooh ooh spank me first. We must all be given a good spanking![/Monty Python]

Cheers,
Lane

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11-21-2006, 03:34 PM	#12
cajela Guest Posts: n/a	Especially the ones born that way. Evil foetuses, neglecting to pray. :devil:

11-21-2006, 06:45 PM	#14
Jobar Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: secularcafe.org Posts: 9,525	Rhutchin, what do you mean by 'sin'? As I understand it, sin is that which is displeasing in the sight of God. By this definition we unbelievers don't think that sin exists. Evil, yes. Crime, yes. Wrongness of all sorts, yes. Those things can be defined without having to appeal to the judgement of some god. But not sin. If I do something that's wrong by my own judgement, is that sin? I'm wondering if there might be some definition of sin that we atheists might find valid.

11-21-2006, 07:01 PM	#15
AthenaAwakened Contributor Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: In a Blues Nation, In the 99% Posts: 15,479	I deal with my sin by giving my sin a stern talking to and then I send my sin to bed without supper.

11-22-2006, 02:59 AM	#17
post tenebras lux Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Republic and Canton of Geneva Posts: 5,756	Oh great: rhutchin - a Calvinist (or so he claims, ref: predestination) - believes in intercessory prayer. :rolling: Good job I'm as likely to be a Justified Sinner as he has of being one of The Elect or I'd be in a terrible tangle trying to work out if I should ask him to pray for me.

11-22-2006, 08:05 AM	#19
post tenebras lux Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Republic and Canton of Geneva Posts: 5,756	He appears to have a 'phobia' when it comes to full (aka 'double') predestination. But I may be misreading him: it's quite possible that he just has a 'philia' for freewill and the right to choose.

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