Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Wael El-Manzalawy · 10-22-2005, 02:39 PM

Many secular persons deny the presence of the God. I am trying here to convince them that there is a God who has created the universe.

Many secular persons will argue that the God is unseen and they believe only in what they see. The God is unseen but we can see the evidences of His presence. The earth, the sky, the stars, the moon, the sun, the sea and the harmony of the universe are all evidences that there is a God who has created the universe.

The harmony and the greatness of the universe are evidences of the Wisdom and Greatness of the Creator. Let`s assume that there is no creator, then what is the cause of the harmony and greatness of the universe? Did the sun, the moon, the land, the sea. The stars ….etc have a meeting and decided what to do? They are too many and everyone would want the universe as he wants. We are sure that the sun, the moon ….etc are not wise. Then we can say that the harmony and greatness of the universe are clear evidences that there is a Wise and Great Creator.

In Islam, we believe in the One and the Only God. In the dayafter, the believers will enter the Heaven while the non-believers will be punished. In Islam, we believe that the God has no sons. We are not like christians who believe that the God has a son. This belief is completely untrue and illogical. If the God decided something and His son decided another contradicting thing, what will happen?

I ask the readers of this article to think deeply about the presence of the God. If you came to a conclusion that there is a God who has created the universe, please ask the God from your hearts to guide you to the true religion. I am sure that the God will guide you to Islam. I invite the readers to read the Holy Quran to know more about Islam.

PoodleLovinPessimist · 10-22-2005, 02:59 PM

Wael, if you want to participate here and have fun and have others enjoy your participation, you will need to--at the very least--read and respond to the commentary on your earlier posts. You bring several points here which you have alread posted verbatim.

We tend to see the apparent inability or unwillingness of many believers to rationally engage us about their beliefs as evidence that religion is detrimental to one's rationality and sanity.

jastity · 10-22-2005, 03:02 PM

This is the same stuff you gave us in that other thread you abandoned.

OK, question. Why do you think the sky and the stars are evidence of the presence of god? Why can't they have been formed in another way? Was the sky formed in any case?

Kosh3 · 10-22-2005, 03:24 PM

The Quran says that Allah has closed our eyes and ears to him, and made us blind to his presence, and that you are supposed to be fearful of us, possibly conquering us by force, as we are inherently evil and corrupt, and that there is a great doom awaiting us in hell ('us' here referring to all non-Muslims). Lo he is merciful and wise.

Do you not follow the Quran's teachings?

TheRealityOfMan · 10-22-2005, 03:30 PM

Muslims also argue that God is unseen. Secularists also believe in things they cannot see.

Muan · 10-22-2005, 03:32 PM

Hi Wael, can you please explain the actions of your prophet??

I read in hadeeses that 60 year old Mohammed slept (raped) with beautiful 20 year old Rehana the same day he killed her husband

, father and brothers along with 900 males of Bani Quraiza. He did the same thing with gorgeous Safia of Bani Nadir in Khybar

. He also bought lovely Juavaria for his harem from a jihadi in whose lot she fell after muslims attacked Bani Mustaleeq( he used to attack innocent communities, kill their men, loot their properties and distribute their women among jihadis to rape)

.He also drooled over his attractive daughter in law Zainab and through a convenient wahi justified his marriage to her (this was in addition to many other wives including attractive 8 year old child bride Ayesha and slave girls).

Thanks :wave:

firebird · 10-22-2005, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wael El-Manzalawy

Many secular persons deny the presence of the God. I am trying here to convince them that there is a God who has created the universe.

Many secular persons will argue that the God is unseen and they believe only in what they see. The God is unseen but we can see the evidences of His presence. The earth, the sky, the stars, the moon, the sun, the sea and the harmony of the universe are all evidences that there is a God who has created the universe.

The harmony and the greatness of the universe are evidences of the Wisdom and Greatness of the Creator. Let`s assume that there is no creator, then what is the cause of the harmony and greatness of the universe? Did the sun, the moon, the land, the sea. The stars ….etc have a meeting and decided what to do? They are too many and everyone would want the universe as he wants. We are sure that the sun, the moon ….etc are not wise. Then we can say that the harmony and greatness of the universe are clear evidences that there is a Wise and Great Creator.

In Islam, we believe in the One and the Only God. In the dayafter, the believers will enter the Heaven while the non-believers will be punished. In Islam, we believe that the God has no sons. We are not like christians who believe that the God has a son. This belief is completely untrue and illogical. If the God decided something and His son decided another contradicting thing, what will happen?

I ask the readers of this article to think deeply about the presence of the God. If you came to a conclusion that there is a God who has created the universe, please ask the God from your hearts to guide you to the true religion. I am sure that the God will guide you to Islam. I invite the readers to read the Holy Quran to know more about Islam.

I'll ask god to make you go away from this forum,<edit>. QUIT trying to convert people to your belief, be happy and leave me alone.

You're like the waves of the sea, it makes me SICK.

SCREW ISLAM!!!!!!!!

Muan · 10-22-2005, 03:35 PM

As for the stars can you explain this??

Can you explain this?

067.005
YUSUFALI: And we have, (from of old), adorned the lowest heaven with Lamps, and We have made such (Lamps) (as) missiles to drive away the Evil Ones, and have prepared for them the Penalty of the Blazing Fire.
PICKTHAL: And verily We have beautified the world's heaven with lamps, and We have made them missiles for the devils, and for them We have prepared the doom of flame.
SHAKIR: And certainly We have adorned this lower heaven with lamps and We have made these missiles for the Shaitans, and We have prepared for them the chastisement of burning.

Muan :huh:

espritch · 10-22-2005, 03:37 PM

Quote:

This belief is completely untrue and illogical.

That statement is redolent with irony.

jastity · 10-22-2005, 03:41 PM

Looks like he's scarpered....

10-22-2005, 02:39 PM	#1
Wael El-Manzalawy Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Egypt Posts: 85	The God in Islam Many secular persons deny the presence of the God. I am trying here to convince them that there is a God who has created the universe. Many secular persons will argue that the God is unseen and they believe only in what they see. The God is unseen but we can see the evidences of His presence. The earth, the sky, the stars, the moon, the sun, the sea and the harmony of the universe are all evidences that there is a God who has created the universe. The harmony and the greatness of the universe are evidences of the Wisdom and Greatness of the Creator. Let`s assume that there is no creator, then what is the cause of the harmony and greatness of the universe? Did the sun, the moon, the land, the sea. The stars ….etc have a meeting and decided what to do? They are too many and everyone would want the universe as he wants. We are sure that the sun, the moon ….etc are not wise. Then we can say that the harmony and greatness of the universe are clear evidences that there is a Wise and Great Creator. In Islam, we believe in the One and the Only God. In the dayafter, the believers will enter the Heaven while the non-believers will be punished. In Islam, we believe that the God has no sons. We are not like christians who believe that the God has a son. This belief is completely untrue and illogical. If the God decided something and His son decided another contradicting thing, what will happen? I ask the readers of this article to think deeply about the presence of the God. If you came to a conclusion that there is a God who has created the universe, please ask the God from your hearts to guide you to the true religion. I am sure that the God will guide you to Islam. I invite the readers to read the Holy Quran to know more about Islam.

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10-22-2005, 02:59 PM	#2
PoodleLovinPessimist Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: USA Posts: 5,826	Wael, if you want to participate here and have fun and have others enjoy your participation, you will need to--at the very least--read and respond to the commentary on your earlier posts. You bring several points here which you have alread posted verbatim. We tend to see the apparent inability or unwillingness of many believers to rationally engage us about their beliefs as evidence that religion is detrimental to one's rationality and sanity.

10-22-2005, 03:02 PM	#3
jastity Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 712	This is the same stuff you gave us in that other thread you abandoned. OK, question. Why do you think the sky and the stars are evidence of the presence of god? Why can't they have been formed in another way? Was the sky formed in any case?

10-22-2005, 03:24 PM	#4
Kosh3 Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: zero point Posts: 2,004	The Quran says that Allah has closed our eyes and ears to him, and made us blind to his presence, and that you are supposed to be fearful of us, possibly conquering us by force, as we are inherently evil and corrupt, and that there is a great doom awaiting us in hell ('us' here referring to all non-Muslims). Lo he is merciful and wise. Do you not follow the Quran's teachings?

10-22-2005, 03:30 PM	#5
TheRealityOfMan Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Osaka / London Posts: 1,993	Muslims also argue that God is unseen. Secularists also believe in things they cannot see.

10-22-2005, 03:32 PM	#6
Muan Regular Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: London Posts: 237	Hi Wael, can you please explain the actions of your prophet?? I read in hadeeses that 60 year old Mohammed slept (raped) with beautiful 20 year old Rehana the same day he killed her husband , father and brothers along with 900 males of Bani Quraiza. He did the same thing with gorgeous Safia of Bani Nadir in Khybar . He also bought lovely Juavaria for his harem from a jihadi in whose lot she fell after muslims attacked Bani Mustaleeq( he used to attack innocent communities, kill their men, loot their properties and distribute their women among jihadis to rape) .He also drooled over his attractive daughter in law Zainab and through a convenient wahi justified his marriage to her (this was in addition to many other wives including attractive 8 year old child bride Ayesha and slave girls). Thanks :wave:

10-22-2005, 03:35 PM	#8
Muan Regular Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: London Posts: 237	As for the stars can you explain this?? Can you explain this? 067.005 YUSUFALI: And we have, (from of old), adorned the lowest heaven with Lamps, and We have made such (Lamps) (as) missiles to drive away the Evil Ones, and have prepared for them the Penalty of the Blazing Fire. PICKTHAL: And verily We have beautified the world's heaven with lamps, and We have made them missiles for the devils, and for them We have prepared the doom of flame. SHAKIR: And certainly We have adorned this lower heaven with lamps and We have made these missiles for the Shaitans, and We have prepared for them the chastisement of burning. Muan :huh:

10-22-2005, 03:41 PM	#10
jastity Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 712	Looks like he's scarpered....

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