Freethought & Rationalism Archive

inquisitive01 · 08-25-2004, 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jagan

Scholars aren't trying to discredit the Bible; they're trying to know as much as possible about it.

The above quote (by Jagan) is an overall, general, "blanket" statement at best. In other words, I disagree.

Sven · 08-25-2004, 02:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by inquisitive01

The above quote (by Jagan) is an overall, general, "blanket" statement at best. In other words, I disagree.

You are of course free to disagree. But I (and others, I think) are also interested why you disagree. Can you substantiate your implicit claim that (some) scholars are trying to discredit the bible instead of simply trying to know as much as possible about it?

Sven · 08-25-2004, 02:50 AM

You're right, this is not E/C, but I don't like to discuss E/C-topics, only your description of the discussions there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by inquisitive01

[...] or maybe some bringing up the valid arguments from another, UNRELATED forum? I mean, I'm sure many of the people here did not like the fact that I was bringing up such valid questions regarding evolution

Nobody was dismayed that you brought up "valid" questions about evolution; so far, I've seen no "valid" question about evolution from you. People were dismayed because you asked nonsensical questions about evolution over and over again, despite having the flaws in your understanding of evolution being explained to you countless times.

Quote:

But doing that would bring up the same unanswered questions again, and would not "look" good in a primarily "non-theist" (another "ist" term, LoL) forum.

The questions were answered countless times; the only thing what this comment here shows is that you apparently still have not understood what's wrong with your view of evolutionary theory. But I don't ask people to take my word for this, I instead urge everyone to look up inquisitives postings in E/C to see whose description is closer to reality.

Quote:

I assure you, from what I've seen on this forum, nobody here or elsewhere is any closer (closer is not necessarily close enough, mind you, and we all have only +/- 70-80 years) to getting to the bottom of the meaning of life.

That's
(1) only your opinion.
(2) entirely irrelevant.

Quote:

As you've stated before I believe . . . nothing is 100% certain when it comes to such questions (i.e., the origin of the universe, what happened prior to the "Big Bang," our ancestors being monkeys, etc.).

I asked you before, I ask you again: Is 99.99999999% certainty of common ancestry not enough?
The other two questions is something science simply has no answer to up to now - but jumping to the conclusion that therefor the theistic answer is right is of course not warranted.

Joshua Adams · 08-25-2004, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by inquisitive01

The above quote (by Jagan) is an overall, general, "blanket" statement at best. In other words, I disagree.

..................................

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jagan, like two fucking sentences later.

(well, at least not any with a semblance of objectivity)

You do realize that many--perhaps even most--Biblical scholars are Judeo-Christian, right?

Quote:

Originally Posted by inquisitive01

Keyword: various.

Yes... various as in every one of them except an obsolete translation from 400 years ago.

Quote:

Originally Posted by inquisitive01

Because it has a better chance of being closer to the original texts than these newer versions. However, like I said before, one can always check the newer translations to see IF they feel the same things are being said by each (as compared with the KJV, which it seems these newer translations are derived from).

No it doesn't. New translations use a variety of ancient authorities in order to get the original meaning, or as close as possible. The KJV is based on the Textus Receptus which is quite sloppy and incorporates fewer manuscripts than newer editions.

Quote:

... most modern scholars consider to be of dubious veracity. Erasmus was often forced to make his own interpretations—back-translating from the Vulgate at best and fully fabricating material at worst.

Also keep in mind that, being so old, it missed out on any new discoveries such as the Dead Sea Scrolls.

funinspace · 08-25-2004, 11:29 AM

Oh, boy another contradiction thread spreading far and wide...

Quote:

Originally Posted by inquisitive01

Because it has a better chance of being closer to the original texts than these newer versions. However, like I said before, one can always check the newer translations to see IF they feel the same things are being said by each (as compared with the KJV, which it seems these newer translations are derived from).

Just out of curiosity, have you read any of the history of the formation of the Canon, what the oldest documents that are extant and in what language they are in, and how we got the KJV? Just wondering since very few Biblical Scholars (that are Christian of any stripe) would agree with this statement.

DramaQ · 08-25-2004, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by inquisitive01

However, if a human authority, such as a judge, inflicts or assigns punishment(s) to someone, it is because ("for what cause") of what that person has done. We generally tend to accept that (human-authority judgement) without questioning it, even though the punishments often don't seem to result in fairness.

Good grief! Then what are we doing with all those appeals courts? We question judgments all the time!

Quote:

Originally Posted by inquisitive01

Which do you feel is more of a threat to society, though... the one who steals something or the one who actually ends someone's life via murder?

Not that I mean to generalize, but...

Isn't this why we have trials with advocates and juries of our peers? Because each case is different; because life is full of extenuating circumstances; because as much as we'd like it to be, very little in this world is cut-and-dried, black and white. Was the murder in self defense? Did the car thief steal from some poor old lady and wreck her car in the process?

What a splendid illustration of why a rigid, single-minded interpretation of the bible is counter-productive. And probably why it does have contradictions: because it's comprised of different solutions for different problems given through different times by many people....

Spookie Here · 08-25-2004, 12:51 PM

Inquisitive01:
I appreciate your reciting the scriptures, but I was interested in their current application regarding the issues of today. What Paul apparently said in the times in which he lived requires a current interpretation according to 2004.

inquisitive01 · 08-25-2004, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sven

(belongs in E/C)

Sven, why post unrelated messages regarding evolution here in this BC&H thread? Do you feel this is helping you discredit anything I might say? Also, isn't the 99.9999999% certainty YOUR analysis of how certain we are (or has someone done the statistical analysis to come up with YOUR 99.9999999% answer)?

Where are the moderators here? Do they feel Sven's post belongs in this thread? If so, should we write BC&H-related posts over in E/C?

inquisitive01 · 08-25-2004, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spookie Here

Inquisitive01:
I appreciate your reciting the scriptures, but I was interested in their current application regarding the issues of today. What Paul apparently said in the times in which he lived requires a current interpretation according to 2004.

Do you have any specific examples of what Paul said that "requires" a current interpretation according to 2004?

Toto · 08-25-2004, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by inquisitive01

. . .Where are the moderators here? Do they feel Sven's post belongs in this thread? If so, should we write BC&H-related posts over in E/C?

<moderator wakes up>

Questions about moderation are always off topic in the thread in question. Please either use the "report this post" function or start a thread in the Problems Forum, and identify the post that you are complaining about.

But if this is the post it appears to be, it is tangentially related, based on a line of questioning that you opened up yourself.

This should not be taken as a comment on how fascinating I find this whole topic. . .

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08-25-2004, 12:51 PM	#117
Spookie Here Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 47	Inquisitive01: I appreciate your reciting the scriptures, but I was interested in their current application regarding the issues of today. What Paul apparently said in the times in which he lived requires a current interpretation according to 2004.

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