mike T.W.

Ace, I am only one believer remember, I cannot infact vouch for the feeling of other believers, my honesty in telling you that my fervor is probably not supernatural or anything super special goes unrewarded with your lame stab at my Christianity and your little digs at the bible.

Leah, But what if like me, you are unable to trust yourself. What if you have an illness that tricks you, if it is mental - you can literally not trust yourself. How can I have faith in myself? I cannot answer my prayers.

You reward me with good and reasonable posts and honesty. I am glad you have faith and think it is a good thing, I hope you could go further and have faith in God.

There is a simple way I can describe faith. Have you ever played the game "faith" with your child. You stand your child on the stairs and tell them to fall, they say " will you catch me " and you say " you'll have to trust me ". If they fall they have faith. BTW, I actually wouldn't recommend this as the baba could get hurt, it is rather an example of faith.

Ace

Mike T.W., I want to apologize if you took anything I wrote offensively. I tell you right now I didn't mean at all to stab your religion.

My "digs" at the Bible, I assume you mean, is when I wrote "
even if the Bible were internally consistent" and by that, I merely meant, "even if it is correct in itself." I have not studied the Bible well-enought to make a judgement of whether it is consistent or not, I meant even if it were, is that enough to believe?

Again, sorry if you took offense, but please know I am very grateful for your honest answer.

mike T.W.

Fair enough Ace, maybe I was too snappy, it's just that I get no joy sometimes. Apology accepted - not that an apology is really needed, I wouldn't say you were offensive, it's just that i didn't want you to be dis-believing because of my posts. I have heard many testimonies of people who have hear God's audible voice and had supernatural experiences, including visitations of Christ, and the actual presence of God.

I told an unimpressive story because I didn't want to pretend to be a person who pretends they can "feel" God in some unexplainable way just to bullsh"t someone. Hope you understand.

Ace

I'm not sure how far this will go outside the realms of the OP, but since I wrote the OP...

What made you take faith that what you're feeling is Christ?

(And, just to clarify and avoid future misunderstands, I like to think that I am a relatively nice person, and when I ask questions, I usually ask them rather straight-fowardly, so much so, that some people have been known to think I was being cynnical. So, right now, again, I ask you believe me when I tell you that I'm simply asking out of curiousity.)

Here, maybe a better question is this:

In addition to taking faith in the Bible and the rest of the religion itself, as well as getting the religious fervor, what else led you to your belief?

If any of this is too personal, don't worry about this post then. I don't want to be intruding.

mike T.W.

It is okay, I am pleased you are interested.

Well, it's hard to explain. I think I kind of always believed in God, though as a child I didn't think about such things very much, when I was a teenager and heard about Christ, I thought that it was amazing that in a world that was basically secular there could be this amazing historical account of the son of God. Since then - I have believed more and more. The fervor I have is like a rush of blood and I feel goosebumps. I can describe it as almost a passion of fire within, and the heart burns...this is caused by God's glory - when I see an example of it. In a so called chance existence, I think to myself - how can Jesus Christ be chance, his words mean so much, and he was so different in what he said and done.

Just the knowledge in the heart, not the mind. It is like a strong thought from the heart that tells me it is true and the power of it beats everything else. I know you've heard it before but if you felt it you would understand. As I said in my previous posts - it is very hard to describe. If you have any further question in relation, then please ask.

Al Kafirun

No to be flip, but this 'having Jesus in your heart' is sounding more and more like the ever elusive and wily female orgasm. Some take the cynical approach, some think they've had it, some say it feels good but nothing special, some say its physical, mental vice versa, and most say it was mind-blowing but more easily achieved alone.

Thugpreacha

It sounds to me like you woke up and got away from the fundie influences in your life. This is not the same as being apart from Christianity. I mean, I am a Christian and I am talking to you. BTW..have a cool day!

Jack the Bodiless

Hmmm... Substitute "nature" for "God", and I've had similar feelings. I've frequently slipped into a trance-like state when in a forest on a summer afternoon.

Similarly, I sometimes "break out" of everyday routine and look at a familiar scene as if I've never really studied it before (being somewhat drunk helps).

However, I have no evidence that this is anything other than a state of mind.

Scary Mary

I tend to agree with you, Jack. The grand majesty and power of nature is enough "divine inspiration" for me. I tend to think of Mother Nature as the most awesome, impartial, and perfect god(dess) we could have.



Also, the slightly drunk thing...

Rational BAC

And what is "nature" exactly?

I have never heard a very good definition of it that does not get slightly mystical.

Anyone here want to define "nature"? This is a challenge.

I am looking for a down to earth, purely scientific, and purely rational definition of what any atheist considers "nature" to be.