DoubtingDave

I saw this debate topic in the archives and thought it would be interesting to re-do this debate with my own arguments. I want to test them out for an upcoming debate.

1) The topic of the debate
Did Jesus' Second Coming Prophecies Fail?

2) The participants of the debate, and what positions they will argue.
I, ShockOfAtheism, will argue that the prophecies failed.

3) The scope of the debate.
I plan to show that based upon the early churchs' understanding and an exegeis of the Greek text, it becomes clear that Jesus' prediction failed; he was indeed a false prophet.

4) The length of the debate, in number of rounds.
5 rounds

5) Whether statements will be made concurrently or in turns, and if the latter, who goes first.

In turns.

6) The maximum length of each statement.
Greeting - 500 word limit (basic greeting, background, and position you will take for the debate)
Round 1 - 5000 word limit
Round 2 - 5000 word limit
Round 3 - 5000 word limit
Round 4 - 5000 word limit
Round 5 - 5000 word limit
Round 6 - 5000 word limit
Close - 5000 word limit (no knew information)

7) The maximum duration between statements.
I propose 7 days

8) The extent to which quotes and references from outside sources will be allowed.

Unlimited.

9) The starting date of the debate.
ASAP

10) Any additional rules or a debate format that debate participants must observe.
I have none.

thief of fire

1) The topic of the debate
Did Jesus' Second Coming Prophecies Fail?

Ok I'll take the negative and say the prophecies of the gospels did not fail

DoubtingDave

Ok, sounds good. Moderators, please set up this debate.

Achwienichtig

I need just a little clarification.

In terms of the scope of the debate, am I correct in saying that you plan on engaging in a purely internal critique of Christianity? This means that you are not going to use sources other than the Bible, Biblical etymology and semantics, Christian exegesis, Church Fathers, etc.? Any outside arguments, e.g. using David Hume's argument that miracles are impossible, saying God doesn't exist so he couldn't have raised Jesus, etc. will be prohibited.

Is this what you both want?

Secondly, thief of fire (or may I call you Prometheus?) are you comfortable with all of ShockofAtheism's terms of debate, or do you have any counter suggestions?

Lastly, who is going to go first? I presume ShockofAtheism, but I just want to make sure.

As soon as these three items are clarified, I shall set up the debate.

DoubtingDave

I am going first.

Also, this is whether or not the return of Jesus failed. We are, of course, using sources such as Greek texts, but no semantics. Miracles are irrelavent to this case

thief of fire

I had intended to stick pretty much with the prohecies attributed to jesus in the gospels, perhaps touching on what I assume will be general ideas about them. I may not critique christianity so much as the prohecies themselves.


I'm happy to stick with the gospels (mainly Mark Matt and Luke), or to include the bible generally, church fathers maybe I dont think so too much. Maybe hebrew or even ANE ideas in general rather, so i may look to other jewish writing from the time, DSS, extracanonical jewish apocalyptic works, even mesopotamian or ugaritic texts (possibly). If it seems they may throw light on a ist century judean/gallilean mindset.


Ok. It may be necessary to metion one or two in passing re: the dating of the gospels (but maybe not)

Sounds good

Im happy to try to focus on this ...

1) The topic of the debate
Did Jesus' Second Coming Prophecies Fail?

OK.

I think it will be impossible to keep semantics, out it to be honest, to some degree, but I'll do my best

Achwienichtig

OK, Everything sounds good. I shall try to have this set up by tomorrow.

Achwienichtig

OK, I have the debate set up. ShockofAtheism, you have a week to get it started.