Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Johnny Skeptic · 05-31-2009, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Joey

My resource has photographs of many of these discoveries to validate the Bible. None of these are available on the web. These are just 50, but there are many books that provide far more archaeological discoveries with photos to validate the Bible.

If you are talking about secular archeological evidence regarding the existence of ancient people and places, please be advised that accurate secular history regarding ancient people and places does not have anything to do with reasonably verifying supernatural history. If Noah, Abraham, and Moses were real people, so what? Many myths mention real people.

Johnny Skeptic · 05-31-2009, 03:17 PM

Message to Bill Joey. Please reply to my posts #9 and #11.

David B · 05-31-2009, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic

Message to Bill Joey. Please reply to my posts #9 and #11.

Hey hang on a minute.

What about my questions in posts 2 and 5?

Which some others have chimed in on, saying they need an answer.

I fear that the thread will turn into a pile on, in which the OP will be so overwhelmed with questions that he doesn't give sufficient attention to any of them.

I'd like to see your questions answered. But do you think that you could ask him to address mine first?

David B

ziffel · 05-31-2009, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David B

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic

Message to Bill Joey. Please reply to my posts #9 and #11.

Hey hang on a minute.

What about my questions in posts 2 and 5?

Sorry guys, he's probably off writing a new post.

Bill Joey · 05-31-2009, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Joey

In 1956 the world learned of the existence of a copy of the Gospel of John that had been penned in Greek on papyrus sometime between AD 150-200.

This early copy has proved invaluable to Bible scholars and translators for helping to reconstruct the most accurate Greek text possible of the Gospel of John.

You are referring to the P52 fragment. How can one little fragment help to reconstruct the entire book of John?

The Gospel writers were anonymous. They wrote decades after the supposed facts. They rarely revealed who their sources were. The authors of Matthew, Mark, and Luke never claimed to have seen Jesus perform miracles. The book of John was written much too late to be of much value to Christians. It is well-known that Matthew and Luke borrowed a good deal from Mark.

Since John is easily the latest of the Gospels, you used a bad example.

Consider the following:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_John

Quote:

Originally Posted by wikipedia

Although P52 is a Greek papyrus fragment, with no more than 112 legible letters, it must come from a substantial codex book; as it is written on both sides, with John 18:31–33 on one side and John 18:37–38 on the other. Most reference books list the probable date for this manuscript as c. 125, but the difficulty of estimating the date of a literary text based solely on paleographic evidence must allow potentially for a range that extends from before 100 to well into the second half of the second century. P52 is small, and although a plausible reconstruction can be attempted for most of the fourteen lines represented, nevertheless the proportion of the text of the Gospel of John for which it provides a direct witness is necessarily limited, so it is rarely cited in textual debate.

There are lots of contradictions in the Bible.

Do you believe that a global flood occurred, that the earth is young, and that the story of Adam and Eve is true? If so, I wish to inform you that a lot of evidence reasonably proves that a global flood did not occur, that the earth is old, and that if a God exists, theistic evolution is true.

I am OVERWHELMED with questions. But anyways my source is 50 Proofs for the Bible, 2007 Rose Publishing.

1. I believe in a global flood and a young earth. I believe in a literal Adam and Eve. I have ltos of evidence to show that a global flood did occur and that God does exist. Consider the following web sites.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/
http://www.answersingenesis.org/Publ...,5707,224.aspx

http://www.compass.org/store/product.asp?id=S9SJURD

http://creationmoments.com/

The 1st link contains a flood page and it shows plenty of evidence to show that one happened.

Johnny Skeptic · 05-31-2009, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic

Message to Bill Joey. Please reply to my posts #9 and #11.

Quote:

Originally Posted by David B

Hey hang on a minute.

What about my questions in posts 2 and 5?

Which some others have chimed in on, saying they need an answer.

I'd like to see your questions answered. But do you think that you could ask him to address mine first?

Message to Joey: Please answer posts in chronological order. What about the other threads that you have conveniently vacated?

Martian Astronomer · 05-31-2009, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Joey

http://www.answersingenesis.org/
<snip>
The 1st link contains a flood page and it shows plenty of evidence to show that one happened.

I'm of the belief that we need a "diving for cover" smiley.

Smullyan-esque · 05-31-2009, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic

Message to Bill Joey. Please reply to my posts #9 and #11.

Dude! It's been, like, 20 minutes since #9 got posted. Chill.

David B · 05-31-2009, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Joey

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic

You are referring to the P52 fragment. How can one little fragment help to reconstruct the entire book of John?

The Gospel writers were anonymous. They wrote decades after the supposed facts. They rarely revealed who their sources were. The authors of Matthew, Mark, and Luke never claimed to have seen Jesus perform miracles. The book of John was written much too late to be of much value to Christians. It is well-known that Matthew and Luke borrowed a good deal from Mark.

Since John is easily the latest of the Gospels, you used a bad example.

Consider the following:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_John

There are lots of contradictions in the Bible.

Do you believe that a global flood occurred, that the earth is young, and that the story of Adam and Eve is true? If so, I wish to inform you that a lot of evidence reasonably proves that a global flood did not occur, that the earth is old, and that if a God exists, theistic evolution is true.

I am OVERWHELMED with questions. But anyways my source is 50 Proofs for the Bible, 2007 Rose Publishing.

1. I believe in a global flood and a young earth. I believe in a literal Adam and Eve. I have ltos of evidence to show that a global flood did occur and that God does exist. Consider the following web sites.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/
http://www.answersingenesis.org/Publ...,5707,224.aspx

http://www.compass.org/store/product.asp?id=S9SJURD

http://creationmoments.com/

The 1st link contains a flood page and it shows plenty of evidence to show that one happened.

I'm familiar with, and not impressed by, AiG.

Back to the point. This is a discussion board, and while posting links can sometimes be relevant, talking about things to hand without recourse to outside authority ( regardless of the bona fides of the authority).

A straight answer, please.

If I post a picture I took within 5 minutes walk of where I live, which is of nothing that either AiG or Talk Origins will have heard, but which I think isn't consilient with a Noah's flood explanation, will you talk to me man to man about it?

I've mentioned this photo in another thread with another person.

I'd be happy to discuss it with both of you.

Are you prepared to do that?

David B

ziffel · 05-31-2009, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martian Astronomer

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Joey

http://www.answersingenesis.org/
<snip>
The 1st link contains a flood page and it shows plenty of evidence to show that one happened.

I'm of the belief that we need a "diving for cover" smiley.

Seriously. AiG is his proof? wow.

Bill, dude. Well, you're new here. You might should've read the forum a while first before posting so much.

Also, you might wish to cite actual evidences rather than link to other sites. We know how to surf the web.

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05-31-2009, 03:17 PM	#12
Johnny Skeptic Banned Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Florida Posts: 19,796	Message to Bill Joey. Please reply to my posts #9 and #11.

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