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Old 07-24-2009, 10:02 AM   #21
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Stephen R. Cosh: A Possible Date for the Silchester Roman 'Church'
The small building south of the forum in Silchester has often been regarded as a church. Archaeological dating merely provides a terminus post quem of the late second century A.D. The mosaic has been compared to one from Verulamium which the Wheelers tentatively dated to c. A.D. 300, although the building was constructed in the second century. Other comparable mosaics in Leicester, Gloucester, Wroxeter and Canterbury can be more securely dated to the late second century A.D., and therefore both the Verulamium and Silchester examples probably belong to the same period. This implies that the building at Silchester was not originally a church.
http://www.romansociety.org/webbrit04.htm#bk11
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Old 07-24-2009, 10:54 AM   #22
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Good Shepherd Sarcophagus, from the Catacomb of Praetextatus, Rome, 390s CE

Christ-Orpheus

Rome, Catacombs of St. Sebastian - Christ is a fish and the "cross" is an anchor


Here we have two fish and a trident as Christian symbols.
http://www.jesuswalk.com/christian-s...sh-trident.jpg

Anchor, IV sec. d.c., Catacomb of Priscilla, via Salaria Nova, Roma


Epitaph of Atimetus Flanked by an anchor and a fish from the catacombs of St. Sebastian on the Via Appia, Rome.

Gravestone for the boy Asellus - Catacomb picture of Peter and Paul with the Chi Rho symbol between them.

http://www.christusrex.org/www1/vaticano/PC2-Sarc.jpg

Chi-Rho Monogram of Christ
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Old 07-24-2009, 11:28 AM   #23
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Was the stonemason who did this one drunk?

http://www.christusrex.org/www1/vaticano/PC-Asellus.jpg

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Old 07-24-2009, 01:07 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Clivedurdle View Post
Was the stonemason who did this one drunk?

http://www.christusrex.org/www1/vaticano/PC-Asellus.jpg

Must be. Look at Peter and Paul.
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Old 07-24-2009, 01:08 PM   #25
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Just read this differently!

Quote:
And was the Holy Lamb of God
On England's pleasant pastures seen
(mmm mint sauce...)
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Old 07-24-2009, 01:12 PM   #26
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From the Jesus Never Existed website-
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At the close of the 8th century, Pope Hadrian I (772-795) confirmed the decrees of the 6th Synod of Constantinople held almost a century earlier and commanded that thereafter "the figure of a man should take the place of a lamb on the cross."

It took Christianity eight centuries to develop the ubiquitous symbol of its suffering Savior.

For 800 years, its Christ on the cross had been a lamb.

But if a real flesh and blood Jesus had actually been crucified, why was his place on the cross so long usurped by a lamb?
I don't want to start yet another thread on mythicism here. Instead, I want to find some specific images, which I recall seeing in this forum several years ago, and can't find now.

I distinctly remember seeing pictures of 2 different crucifixes, both of which had a man's body with the head of a lamb as the crucified savior.

There are several images I've found where a lamb is shown on the cross:




These aren't what I'm looking for. The ones I recall were more like the animal-headed Egyptian representations of some of their gods, for instance Bast, or Anubis.

Might anyone here know about these images?
Hi Jobar,

I have not found it yet, but I will keep on looking. I would have thought that such images would be more numerous based on the imagery of Revelation 13:8, "the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world." I wonder now what Pope Hadrian I was talking about.

I found the quote embedded in the article Did Jesus Christ Really Live? (ca. 1922), by Marshall J. Gauvin.

Quote:
On the theory that Christ was crucified, how shall we explain the fact that during the first eight centuries of the evolution of Christianity, Christian art represented a lamb, and not a man, as suffering on the cross for the salvation of the world? Neither the paintings in the Catacombs nor the sculptures on Christian tombs pictured a human figure on the cross. Everywhere a lamb was shown as the Christian symbol--a lamb carrying a cross, a lamb at the foot of a cross, a lamb on a cross. Some figures showed the lamb with a human head, shoulders and arms, holding a cross in his hands--the lamb of God in process of assuming the human form--the crucifixion myth becoming realistic. At the close of the eighth century, Pope Hadrian I, confirming the decree of the sixth Synod of Constantinople, commanded that thereafter the figure of a man should take the place of a lamb on the cross. It took Christianity eight hundred years to develop the symbol of its suffering Savior. For eight hundred years, the Christ on the cross was a lamb. But if Christ was actually crucified, why was his place on the cross so long usurped by a lamb? In the light of history and reason, and in view of a lamb on the cross, why should we believe in the Crucifixion?
Has anyone seen Jesus depicted with a lamb's body but human head and arms?

Jake
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Old 07-24-2009, 01:39 PM   #27
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According to Justin, Dialogue with Trypho chapter 40, the Paschal Lamb of the ancient Israelites was roasted on a cross.
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Old 07-24-2009, 01:42 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by jakejonesiv View Post
I have not found it yet, but I will keep on looking. I would have thought that such images would be more numerous based on the imagery of Revelation 13:8, "the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world." I wonder now what Pope Hadrian I was talking about.
IIUC Pope Hadrian was simply confirming the 82nd canon of QuiniSext
Quote:
In some pictures of the venerable icons, a lamb is painted to which the Precursor points his finger, which is received as a type of grace, indicating beforehand through the Law, our true Lamb, Christ our God. Embracing therefore the ancient types and shadows as symbols of the truth, and patterns given to the Church, we prefer "grace and truth," receiving it as the fulfilment of the Law. In order therefore that "that which is perfect" may be delineated to the eyes of all, at least in coloured expression, we decree that the figure in human form of the Lamb who taketh away the sin of the world, Christ our God, be henceforth exhibited in images, instead of the ancient lamb, so that all may understand by means of it the depths of the humiliation of the Word of God, and that we may recall to our memory his conversation in the flesh, his passion and salutary death, and his redemption which was wrought for the whole world.
The disapproval of representing Jesus as a lamb does not seem to be primarily a concern about the depiction of the crucifixion.

Andrew Criddle
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Old 07-24-2009, 04:46 PM   #29
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I think I may have found what you were thinking of. It is on an illustration between pages 160 & 161 in Antiquity Unveiled By Jonathan M Roberts, 1894:
The above engraving Of the lamb nailed to the cross represents the Christian symbol prior to 680 A. D., though this fact is not generally known At the Sixth Ecumenical Council held at Constantinople in that year, it was ordained that in place of the lamb, the figure of a man should be portrayed on the cross. This has been known and recognized since that time as the Christian symbol. After the decree of the council m 680 A. D., the representation and worship of the lamb on the cross was prohibited, and that of the man was substituted in its place. By these items of history, we learn how and at what period the story of the so-called crucifixion of Christ was formulated. (See communication of Constantinus Pogonatus, Page 160). The decree of the council prohibiting the representation and worship of the lamb as the Christian symbol, as translated from the Latin, is as follows:

"In certain representations of the images of the saints, a lamb is portrayed, etc. We, therefore accepting the old forms and shadows as signs of the truth and as traditional symbols of the church, prefer Grace and Truth, which we accept as the fulfillment of the law. So, that which is perfect, let us place in pictures, even before the eyes of all. We have decreed that that Lamb, which taketh away the sins of the world, Christ our God, ought to be portrayed henceforth in human form in place of the Lamb."—In the Roma Sotteranea of Antonio Bosio Dell, concerning the image of Christ under the figure of a lamb."
(Sorry, could not paste the image directly into the message and cannot find it online)

http://books.google.com/books?id=--8...esult&resnum=9

The full title might illustrate the wording: "Ancient voices from the spirit realms Disclose the most starteling revelations Proving Christianity to be of Heathen Origins."

DCH

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jobar View Post
From the Jesus Never Existed website-
Quote:
At the close of the 8th century, Pope Hadrian I (772-795) confirmed the decrees of the 6th Synod of Constantinople held almost a century earlier and commanded that thereafter "the figure of a man should take the place of a lamb on the cross."

It took Christianity eight centuries to develop the ubiquitous symbol of its suffering Savior.

For 800 years, its Christ on the cross had been a lamb.

But if a real flesh and blood Jesus had actually been crucified, why was his place on the cross so long usurped by a lamb?
I don't want to start yet another thread on mythicism here. Instead, I want to find some specific images, which I recall seeing in this forum several years ago, and can't find now.

I distinctly remember seeing pictures of 2 different crucifixes, both of which had a man's body with the head of a lamb as the crucified savior.

There are several images I've found where a lamb is shown on the cross:




These aren't what I'm looking for. The ones I recall were more like the animal-headed Egyptian representations of some of their gods, for instance Bast, or Anubis.

Might anyone here know about these images?
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Old 07-25-2009, 12:08 AM   #30
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http://www.huntfor.com/arthistory/me...ychristian.htm

Can't see anything here immediately but it has links to other sites.

Googling history of christian art gives a variety of sites.
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