Nay-Sayer

I fail to see where/how Jesus claims divinity...

stuart shepherd

Matthew 26:63-64 (King James Version)
63But Jesus held his peace, And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.

64Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

Daniel 7:13-14 (King James Version)
13I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.

14And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

Psalm 110:1-2 (King James Version)

1The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

2The LORD shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies.

stuart shepherd

Dominus Paradoxum

Nay-Sayer, I agree that that passage would count as evidence of Jesus not thinking of himself as God. Nevertheless, we can't assume that the NT authors all agree on who Jesus was or even what he thought about himself. The same authors might even incorporate material with divergent Christological views in their own account. I'm happy to throw this one on the biblical contradictions pile.

BALDUCCI, of course it doesn't. I'm just saying that (pretending for the moment that the account in John is true) it seems that if Thomas referred to Jesus as his "God", and Jesus didn't think of himself as God, he would have corrected Thomas. If I'm right, all that follows is that according to the account Jesus believed himself to be God.

No Robots

How about the guy who said this:

I am more than God and I am my own creator. When I came into being, all things came into being; I was the cause of myself and of all things, and if I so willed, I would not be and all things would not be. If I were not, God also would not be.—Meister Eckhart

Does this text mean that Eckhart saw himself as greater than God? That's what he says, isn't it?

BALDUCCI

Son of Man does not mean Son of God.

Jesus clearly believed in his right to speak on behalf of God,but then so did many prophets and preachers, John the Baptist included, as well as a guy on 42nd Street in New York. It is a huge jump from all the quotations included in this thread to the proposition that Jesus believed himself the Son of God. Throughout the Acts, he is described as the Servant of God, except for a couple of obvious, clumsy interpolations. And what, in any case, would the "Son of God" have meant to a first century Jew ? What does it mean today ? Is it like the daughter of Leda who was impregnated by Zeus in the form of a swan, as Mary was impregnated by Jehova in the form of a spirit or ghost ? This is pretty unsophisticated and silly stuff. Why would God want a human son ? Why wouldnt he leave his son there permanently to clean up the world ? Why would God be satisfied that although a church was formed to sing songs to this son, human nature and society remained essentially unchanged or descended into even greater brutality after his son was whizzed up to heaven. The whole proposition is so ludicrous that it genuinely must require faith to go along with it.

judge

Thanks for that.. ..can you tell me sermom or which part of his writings it is from?

blkgayatheist

How about John 10:30. "I and the father are One"

Chris Weimer

Have you never heard the phrase "to be one with X"? To be one with nature doesn't mean that you are nature.

Not saying it's the same thing, but it's a perspective to look at. You'd have to reinsert the comment back into its context to decide upon the matter.

Roland

I think we can safely dismiss any saying that is attributed to Jesus in the Gospel of John as a fabrication of the author or authors of the piece.

If Jesus had really said anything John claims he said, how did Matthew, Mark and Luke all miss them, even though the three other gospels agree on many of the same quotes?

No Robots

I obtained the quotation from Constantin Brunner’s Our Christ, p.3, which provides the following citation: F. Pfeiffer, Deutsche Mystiker des 14. Jahrhunderts, vol. 2 (Leipzig, 1857). p. 283, line 37.