Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Roach Clips · 04-20-2006, 06:27 PM

I'm trying to figure out if Jesus was an actual person for myself and I've come across Jesuspuzzle.com and began to read its articles. I've only gotten through part 1: a conspiracy of silence and I'd like to hear the views of IIDB members on this idea that Jesus is never spoken of as a real human being who had lived recently by paul or any other first century epistle. I'm new to this study and I admit I'm an amatuer with no formal schooling in these subjects, therefore, I'd love to hear the opinions of people who have studied these things in greater detail.

Quote:

A CONSPIRACY OF SILENCE

The Gospel story, with its figure of Jesus of Nazareth, cannot be found before the Gospels. In Christian writings earlier than Mark, including almost all of the New Testament epistles, as well as in many writings from the second century, the object of Christian faith is never spoken of as a human man who had recently lived, taught, performed miracles, suffered and died at the hands of human authorities, or rose from a tomb outside Jerusalem. There is no sign in the epistles of Mary or Joseph, Judas or John the Baptist, no birth story, teaching or appointment of apostles by Jesus, no mention of holy places or sites of Jesus’ career, not even the hill of Calvary or the empty tomb. This silence is so pervasive and so perplexing that attempted explanations for it have proven inadequate.

[edit]I'd also appreciate it if anyone could post any useful links to other sites that cover this subject.

Eowyn · 04-20-2006, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roach Clips

I'm trying to figure out if Jesus was an actual person for myself and I've come across Jesuspuzzle.com and began to read its articles. I've only gotten through part 1: a conspiracy of silence and I'd like to hear the views of IIDB members on this idea that Jesus is never spoken of as a real human being who had lived recently by paul or any other first century epistle. I'm new to this study and I admit I'm an amatuer with no formal schooling in these subjects, therefore, I'd love to hear the opinions of people who have studied these things in greater detail.

[edit]I'd also appreciate it if anyone could post any useful links to other sites that cover this subject.

There is this passage in Paul:

Quote:

1 Cor 15: 1Now I am reminding you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you indeed received and in which you also stand. 2 Through it you are also being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you, unless you believed in vain. 3 For I handed on to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the scriptures; 4 that he was buried; that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the scriptures; 5 that he appeared to Kephas, then to the Twelve. 6 After that, he appeared to more than five hundred brothers at once, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. 7 After that he appeared to James, then to all the apostles. 8 Last of all, as to one born abnormally, he appeared to me.

Robert M. Price has written an article called 1 Corinthians 15: 3-11 as a Post-Pauline Interpolation I don't know if it can be found online, but I have it in a book The Empty Tomb edited by Robert M. Price and Jeffery Jay Lowder.

There is this reference to the Last Supper:

Quote:

1 Cor 11 23 For I received from the Lord what I also handed on to you, that the Lord Jesus, on the night he was handed over, took bread, 24 and, after he had given thanks, broke it and said, "This is my body that is for you. Do this in remembrance of me." 25 In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me."

If anyone is familiar with Doherty's work, how does he address passages such as these?

Toto · 04-20-2006, 11:51 PM

Robert Price's article is here.

The Empty Tomb is listed here

Toto · 04-21-2006, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eowyn

...
If anyone is familiar with Doherty's work, how does he address passages such as these?

Doherty could take the easy road and say that they were later interpolations added by the orthodox church for force Paul into their theological stance. But he interprets them as referring to actions in a sub-lunar plane of existence. It's very controversial and somewhat difficult to follow. You can find a lot of dispute here on the question.

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04-20-2006, 11:51 PM	#3
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	Robert Price's article is here. The Empty Tomb is listed here

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