Sven

Interesting! Got any reference for this?
Especially in the light of your following comment:

Reminds me off the >120 years old claim that evolution will be discarded during the next decade.

Sven

This is just as inane as this:
"IF there is no God... THEN how can you explain the fact that the 'goatherders' that supposedly wrote the Bible wrote the Creation accout in such a way as to directly conflict the evoluntionist's account of evolution at every turn, with NO knowledge of the modern theories of evolution?"

seen in Stupid Creationist Arguments.

Sauron

Why would he do that?

Oded Golan was smart enough to not create an exact replica.
Oded Golan is going to trial (or has already been at trial) for antiquities fraud in the state of Israel.

The successful forger would never do what you suggest. You might want to think through such statements before posting them.

Sauron

Source, please? Some PDF files of the permits, or something?

Perhaps because he really isn't involved in any IAA digs?

Right.

You *should* care. If you're going to stand by this guy's claims, then that means you have to be prepared to answer National-Enquirer type nonsense such as this blood claim. And if you want us to believe any of the rest of this tale you've spun about Wyatt's theories being so advanced, then you'll need to answer questions about those theories.

I'd say he was wrong on all these things.

Yes. Real scientists steer clear of nonsense.

Facts and experimental epeatability have a way of "setting a person's mind".

I doubt that you speak for "true Bible believers".

There was no logical reason for them to cross water at all. And according to the Wyatt tall tale here:
http://www.arkdiscovery.com/red_sea_crossing.htm

they crossed water after traversing the Sinai - however long that took. And that would have been long after they first departed from Egypt. Which also makes no sense, since it implies that Pharaoh changed his mind long after the initial exodus.

You mean the modern steamship handwheels that Gooch's dad already pointed out?

Yes. We've seen them, too. They're steamship handwheels.

1. Let's see the verses in question.
2. Let's see the records in question, that put the border of Egypt at Suez.

gregor2

A bit off topic, but Schermer asked the right question - "Why do people believe weird things?" The Wyatt-defense by (the recently departed) prax and Lys are curious.

It reminds me of Marilyn Agee who annually posts another prediction of the end of the world and the rapture. She has convinced herself that the world was going to end - I think starting in 1996. Notwithstanding any evidence and the repeated failures of predictions, these folks continue on.

I wonder if these people reach their 60s and ask themselves "why was I such a credulous person?"

Charlesknight

I think part of the attraction of Wyatt's stuff is that he appears to be a nice and honest guy - so the natural inclination is to go along with the ideas.

After looking extensively at his work and the numerous excuses (for the various finds) from "it was stolen" to "God stopped us going into the cave and if we had we would have been all struck dead", I'd like to think he was just rug-chewing mad rather than out for what he could get.

Avatar

Hi, Lys. Long time no see.

I am going to repeat a qustion that has been asked and not at all answered.

If Ron Wyatt had physical proof of his claims (Christ's blood, the Ten Commandments, pieces of Noah's backyard broject, artifacts from Sodom) where are they? Where is the proof and why have they not been examined by people who actually know what they're doing?

badger3k

That's a key part to it. A lot of people look to appearance rather than content, especially if it fits their preconceived notions. Appearance and Likeablility are two keys to success as a huckster or shyster (or fraud, to put it less charitably). Most accounts do agree that Wyatt was a "nice man", but being perceived as nice doesn't mean you are, or are competent.

I think most people take the path of least resistance when it comes to critical thinking (if they do that at all).

Lysimachus

Notice that the steamship handwheels have square holes in their centers. Notice that a square hole is on everyone of them and required for turning whatever machinery it's engaged in.

Now notice again the Gold-Gilded wheel. It has a pure round hole. Also notice that it has a "pure gold" shell. Dr. Moller puts things into perspective with these drawings:



This wheel is a drawing of the gilded wheel front on the sea-bed:


Now compare with these illustrations provided in this source: M. Healy and A. McBridge (1992) New Kingdom Egypt, Osprey Publishing Ltd, London, England



And another one:



Notice that the gold gilded wheel found on the sea-bed has striking similarities to these wheels, containing features from both wheels. (with round holes!!)

Now take a look at this image that compares all three of them. The wheel on the left is the redrawing of the gold wheel lying front in comparison to the Osprey Military illustrations:



And to confirm these illustrations, let is look at an inscription from the 18th dynasty of Egyptians assembling a chariot:

-- J.G. Wilkinson (1837) Manners and Customs of Ancient Egyptians, London, England

The inscription illustrates Egyptians producing four-spoked wheels of a similar character as the wheel found on th sea-bed.

Now see how it compares with one of the wheels in the illustrations:




If one dares to enter the realm by stating that Ron could have "easily planted those chariot wheels", then I'm afraid this is subscribing oneself to having no faith in anyone who discovers anything. It could be just as easy to make the unintelligent assertion that "these Egyptologists are out to deceive us by changing or drawing paintings on the walls", or that scientists "planted bones in certain places to deceive us".

If one is to associate the gold-gilded wheel found on the sea-bed with steamship handwheels, I'm afraid they will also be obliged to do the same with Wilkinson's 18th dynasty inscriptions.

This is the typical critic-diabolical attempt to try and rip apart anything that is related to the possibilities of the various narratives recorded in the biblical text.

Lysimachus

Avatar,

It's a looong loooong loooong loooong answer my friend. It's all very complicated. At first I thought there was no proof, and that every bit of it was a "fraud" because there were no "straight-forward" answers. That was until I decided to be honest and dig as deep as I could, and find out person-to-person. After reading ALL the material I could get my hands on (one such book that helped me was the 340 page "Discoveries: Questions Answered" by Jonathon Gray), talking both in person and on the phone with many associated with the discoveries, and analyzing and evaluating all the criticisms against these claims...only then...ONLY THEN...was I able to put the grand puzzle together and see how it all fit.

It was then that I realized just how bent Satan has been against these discoveries. He has certainly succeeded in confusing so many with the real truths. There are many “so-called supporters� of Ron Wyatt who have messed up his credibility by adding additional information to the discoveries--information that cannot be supported or verified, and therefore ruining the credibility of the discoveries simply for the fact that people automatically associate various unfounded claims with Ron's discoveries. In a way I don’t blame them, as they have no way to know for certain. But they are to be kept separate.

Oh, you can be sure to find plenty of great info regarding Ron's discoveries, but on the web there is way too many unfounded claims intermingled with genuine data. The things I post I try and make sure that it is approved of WAR. Unfortunately, I am realizing that there have been some things I have said connecting WAR with various claims--causing forum posters to accuse WAR of having no evidence for. Later when talking with WAR, I discover they in no way latch onto some claim, and that that "claim" was added later by other various organizations claiming to be "Ron's true successors".

With much of the damage already done, Wyatt Archaeological Research must now concentrate and focus on the work that lies ahead of them. They cannot muddle in the past. They are working closely with the Israeli Government and Antiquities Authorities. So just remember that if you browse around the web regarding Ron's discoveries, much truth has been mixed with error--of which I believe was part of Satan's ploy to muddy the waters and cause confusion.

There are no simple answers for you. My suggestion to you is start from scratch, and read the books I suggested. If you cannot afford the books, find someone who has them and borrow them. Acquaint yourself with people who have worked closely with WAR. Dig deep and get to the bottom of things.