sharon45

No way can this statement be considered as a honest moderation, because it has nothing to do with what somebody wants. It is about what really is. If one believes in the NT, one has to also believe in a real hell. If jesus was in fact so truly deserving of whole-hearted praise and devout servitude, then anyone sane would of course have to figure out how they could sincerely give up of themselves for such a man no matter how wrong they might have thought of him before.

No amount of words from either party can explain away a perceived reality. Thinking or believing it is not going to change what is actual.

I know that there is no such thing as the christian version of a god, but that does not explain away the possibility that one similar could indeed exist. God could really be a liar or the bible is the liar, there is just no way to tell. Even though the concepts of original sin, jesus, and hell are deeply flawed and clearly manufactured by the NT, that can't explain away the possibility that they could still somehow exist. All this could be some wild game the IPU is playing on everyone and there is just as much evidence to support that idea as any other belief.

Mace, the whole point is to not be corrupted with these beliefs by anyone. You can research for many years and have all the advice given to you as this place can, but ultimately, it has to always remain your responsibility for the final decision. You can only know your heart and mind, no one else can tell you that.

BadBadBad

I believe that the plane will leave at 7:10. Well not really. I'm only lukewarm in that belief. Really, I'm uncertain when the plane leaves. Frankly, I don't know when the plane leaves. I'd like to have faith in Bob who told me what he thought, but I don't. I want to look at my tickets, only I can't find them. Frickin' A, I don't have a clue when that plane leaves, but my best guess is 7:10, so I'll leave at 6:30. Damn! I get there and the plane left at 6:40.

Does anyone really believe that I believed the plane would leave at 7:10? Does anyone really believe that I had faith in Bob? Would God believe a story like that? Is there any way I could have convinced myself absolutely that I knew when that plane was leaving?

Don't do that, or you're a gonner. It's anything but The Good Book.

jdlongmire

Doubts are understandable. How you deal with doubt is a discriminator.

I think that perseverance is an admirable trait and while one may feel distanced from God in Spirit, you can always return if that is your destiny.

Is it only emotion? Or is it a spiritual battle? There are differences. It is a typical human response to attempt to resolve crisis by fleeing to the polar opposite characteristics...

Are you seeking comfort?

- pax -

-JD

You don't have time for what?

Time would seem to be the very thing you take, considering the magnitude of the decision you seem to be trying to make...

- peace be to you -

-JD

Spanish_Inquisitor

Yep. I took thirty years to come to some conclusion. At first I just called myself areligious, and if pressed, I would have 'fessed up to being called an agnostic, but I didn't call myself an atheist until this year, primarily because I took time off to get married, have and raise kids, start a career, and did other important and mundane things that preoccupied and distracted me. Sort of like the character in Jimmy Buffet's He Went to Paris.

Clearly I was in no hurry.

Don't be pressured to pick a label for yourself. If you feel the need to make a decision now, just call your self a "doubter" or a "seeker" and say you're still looking. Just keep an open mind and one day you'll be surprised to find the decision just jumps up on your lap and makes himself at home. :thumbs:

SI

Lola

There are many who are "lukewarm" about their Christian faith. I can't see anything bad about that. Seeking truth and knowledge about important decisions (important to you at least) is a very admirable thing. :thumbs:

Actually, I had problems with the lukewarm verse in revelations when I was xian. versus this one:
So, I think these verses confuse the reader. Even when I thought I was "in the spirit" as I read the "Word" I was still very conflicted. Well, I'm sure some "hot" xian will say that lukewarm xians don't care about their faith... However, it's possible for a lukewarm Christian to have even more faith larger than the size of a mustard seed.

If reading the bible "decides it" for you, then there ya go, Mace, but don't stop there! Keep on, keeping on! Continue to read other works--besides the bible, all Stroble's Case For's, Max Lucado books, and all the Left Behind series.. ( those LB books just make me ill...sorry) Be balanced and objective.

For me, the Bible was one of the best books leading me to my atheism in addition to The Case for Faith, by L Strobel. But that's my story.

Well, actually, maybe you or some other xian can help me here-- how can part of the bible cause you to have or grow in your faith, but the rest can be tossed aside as untrue--this confuses me. My Catholic buddies reconcile the faith by looking at the OT as complete myth to give us hidden messages, and the NT as historic documentation that leads us to god and christ. This school of thought helps them with their faith, but I can't follow that "logic."

-Lola

French Prometheus

Jesus commanded a lot of things (to exterminate his enemies, to beat one's slaves, not to change the laws of the OT,...) and Christians only pick and choose to obey some of them.

Mace

MOST Christians. Many are hypocrites. Some are virtuous.

French Prometheus

The problem is that Jesus said a lot of contradictory things in the Gospels. Christians have no other choice but to pick and choose. Whether a Christian is "virtuous" or not, he cannot both obey Matt. 19:19 and Luke 19:27.

Liberal Christians tend to focus on the "good" things Jesus commanded but they ignore, misinterpret or try and explain away the passages where Jesus is violent, intolerant, unfair or just plain sadistic. You can ALWAYS make up an interpretation that distorts the literal meaning of ANY text so that it supports your views. Every Christian who reads the Bible does that. The Bible (both the OT and NT) contains so many contradictions, absurdities and horrors that no one takes it at its word. Is it hypocrisy? I don't think so. It's more like cognitive dissonance.

sharon45

Maybe some yes, but all follow a fabrication, and that is far from noble.

Thomas II

Mace,
Hmmm...
It's Pentecostal not "Pentocostal"...
For a moment I thought you were serious...
Good acting :wave: