Doctor X

Indeed!

I am contacting the Gestapo . . . er . . . Department of Homeland Security to provide proper attire for snakes on statues, pictures, and elementary school aquariums.

--J.D.

P.S. To the opening question, Lilith arose partially to explain why woman is created twice.

Adora

Isn't there some Spanish piece of literature about a chick and a snake and... you know?

And Adam gave up Lilith because she wouldn't be on the bottom.

Doctor X

That story is reproduced in Neil Gaiman's The Sandman stories. I am unaware if some Midrash or something goes into that much detail.

Rumors have it that Lilith has been sighted in the modern era:



--J.D.

Amlodhi

Indeed she has.



Yet another good reason for the use of graphic imagery in ancient mythology classes as an aid to memory retention.

Amlodhi

Doctor X

Of course my icon has a reference to the Beast. . . .

--J.D.

Amlodhi

<chuckle> . . I'm not sure which reference you have in mind. But I think it might be best if I resist the temptation of an overt response to your straight line.


Namaste'

Amlodhi

spin

I'd put your icon away, if I were you.


spin

Doctor X

You do not wish to bow down and worship my icon?

Anyways, before this gets banished to ~~E~~ with the threads that explain how Sailor Moon is contained in the Pentateuch, anyone have any idea where the Lilith texts come from?

--J.D.

Bracer

Well, I did a little research on Lilith some years back for a story I was writing -- here’s the 2 cents worth I can remember off the top of my head:

As you said up thread, Lilith was an invention of Jewish scholars during medieval times to explain why woman was created twice in Genesis (once along with Adam in Gen 1:27, then later again when she’s created from one of his ribs in Gen 2:21-23). The idea is that this first woman must have left and/or proved an unworthy creation -- and Adora is correct, the story is that she claimed that since they were both created from the clay, this made them equal and it was as fitting that Adam lie beneath her, so in a snit Adam had God kick her out of Eden. Basically, since Eve was then created from Adam’s flesh this made her “lesser� and subservient to him. IIRC, Lilith then consorts with demons and becomes a succubus figure, mounting men as they sleep (an explanation for wet dreams and nocturnal emissions). She was also thought be responsible for crib death and (again, IIRC), as late as the early 20th century some Jews still placed talismans over their babies’ beds to ward her off.

Now, where did the stories come from originally? I have no real clue, except to note the tantalizing fact that a woman (although in most representations I’ve seen she has the hips, legs, and wings of a bird) called Lilith is a minor figure in the ancient Sumerian poems and stories of Inanna, in which she symbolizes, of all things, unbridled sexuality (see Inanna: Queen of Heaven and Earth, Wolkstein and Kramer). Given the influence of Sumerian myth on the creation of Jewish scripture and specifically Genesis (Gligamesh and the flood story, et al) this is probably significant with regards to the Jewish version of Lilith, but I am no scholar of such things and probably don’t know what the hell I’m talking about. Figured it was worth mentioning though.

Amlodhi

As CX has mentioned, a google search will produce a wide range of information and opinion regarding the origins of the Lilith myth.

Most of the essential characteristics of Lilith seem to be first outlined in an 11th century text called "The Alphabet of Ben Sira".

The Spanish piece of literature Adora is referring to, (which features descriptions of Lilith), is probably the Sefer ha-Zohar.

The full development of the Lilith myth is suspected, (by many, if not most scholars), to be a product of the late middle ages. There are some who trace the basic origins back to a few possible Hebrew references which, in turn, were likely derived from Babylonian and Sumerian sources.

I have read elsewhere, however, that the identification in the Gilgamesh text is strongly disputed.

It has also been contended that a reference to Lilith is found in the book of Isaiah chapter 34:14. The term found here is לילית , or "lilit(h)". This is properly translated as "a night spectre", from the sense of turning (or twisting) away from the light. IIRC, the KJV translates this as "screech owl" although it seems to me that in some place it is translated as "night hag".

Although the meaning of the term itself may derive from Babylonian (or Sumerian) sources, the context of Isaiah 34:14 is the fall and desolation of Edom. Verses 14 & 15 contain a list of the various creatures that will take up residence in the now desolate former nation. This list includes wild beasts, howling beasts, shaggy goats, snakes, vultures, and the lilit . So, regardless of the etymology, it would seem that "screech (or night) owl" might best fit the context here.

I have also heard speculation that the concept of Lilith was developed as an oral rabbinic tradition to explain what appeared to be two different accounts of the creation of Eve in the book of Genesis.

The general opinion seems to be that a fully developed Lilith myth is a late middle age construction which draws its characteristics from various (and often, vague and/or questionable) references.

So, while there may be a connection between some form of the term "Lilith" and an early mythological demoness or "night spectre", one should probably consider the concept of Lilith being Adam's first wife to be a later embellishment and just enjoy the graphic imagery.

". . . and that's all I have to say about that." (Forrest Gump)


Namaste'

Amlodhi