Originally Posted by fatpie42

Hmmm... out of interest, did anyone in those ancient times dismiss the historicity of Zeus?

Originally Posted by mountainman

On what basis does Bale's statement not represent the belief of John Bale?

Originally Posted by wikipedia article based on Encyclopedia Britannica

Bale wrote during a time when many men had great passion for the Christian scriptures. His central thesis is that the book of Revelation is a prophecy of how God’s word and those who love it (the “saints”) would fare at the hands of men and a false Church during the last age, meaning the time between the ascension of Jesus and the end of the world.

Originally Posted by mountainman

On what basis does Bale's statement not represent the belief of John Bale?

Originally Posted by Toto

There is nothing in that wiki entry to indicate that Bale was anything other than a believing Christian.

Originally Posted by The Pope's Dictionary

John Bale, the apostate English Carmelite, the first to give currency to these words in the time of Queen Elizabeth, was not even a contemporary of Leo. Among the many sayings of Leo X that have come down to us, there is not one of a sceptical nature. In his private life he preserved as pope the irreproachable reputation that he had borne when a cardinal. His character shows a remarkable mingling of good and bad traits.

Originally Posted by Doug Shaver

Bale, I am sure, made a great many statements during his lifetime. To which of them did you think I was referring?

Originally Posted by Ehrman

"Every single source that mentions Jesus up until the 18th century assumes that he actually existed."

Originally Posted by mountainman

... Arius seems to have used the word "figment" to describe Jesus.

Originally Posted by The Letter of Constantine to Arius of Alexandria .... "Where are you Arius?"

(28.) Do you, God, then hear; do you,
all the people, pay attention.
For this fellow is shameless and useless,
who, having progressed to the height
both of wickedness and likewise
of lawlessness, pretends piety.


(29.) He says:

“Away! I do not wish God to appear
to be subject to suffering of outrages,
and on this account I suggest
and fabricate wondrous things indeed
in respect to faith: that God,
when he had made the newly born
and the newly created essence of Christ,
prepared aid for himself,
as it seems indeed to me.
For what you have taken from him,
this you have made less.”

Is this, then, your faith,
spoiler and destroyer?



(30.) According to hypothesis do you accept
as a figment him who has condemned
the figments of the heathen?

Do you call foreign and – as it were –
a servant of duties him
who without reflection and reasoning,
in that he coexists
with the Father’s eternity,
perfected all things?

Now adapt, if indeed you dare,
adapt I say, to God
both precaution and hope of what will happen,
also reflection, reasoning, declaration
and articulation of considered judgment,
and, in short, delight, laughter, grief.

Originally Posted by mountainman

The one in the book he authored, to which you responded, namely:

Originally Posted by mountainman

Bale is decribed as an apostate