Evolutionist

Speaking with creationists on and off recently, I saw one of them say this:

Which actually made me laugh a little. You see, Phillip Johnson is a professor teaching law at the University of Chicago. When I pointed out to him that this Phillip Johnson person is not only not a biologist, but he's not even a scientist, I was accused of making appeals to authority (even more amusing because the original claim was an appeal to authority to start with).

Now, correct me if I'm wrong- but with science especially, if I want to find out about a certain field/theory etc, I'm going to go to specialists in that field. I'm not going to go to my old English teacher and ask him about string theory.

All opinions are not equal it would seem rather obvious to me- a lawyer doesn't have as much standing when he makes a statement over a scientific theory as a scientist working in that field does.

simian

University of California, Berkeley,
http://www.arn.org/infopage/johnson.htm

He also said that science was wrong about HIV causing AIDS.

Simian

RufusAtticus

Appeals to authority are not necessarily fallacious, especially when the people in the discussion are laypeople. The problem comes when people make misplaced appeals to authority, such as appealing to the authority of a lawyer with respect to biology. However, begin able to detect misplaced appeals to authority, probably means that you have the knowledge to not rely on appeals to authority in the first place.

Oolon Colluphid

Yep. The problem with the creationist using Johnson to back up what he’s saying is that, if an appeal to authority is to carry any weight at all, the authority needs to be a relevant one. It’s all about track record, really. Johnson might have valid points -- but since he’s speaking so far outside his area of expertise, the chances of him being right are greatly diminished. All the more so when he says things that all the truly relevant experts disagree with.

It’s like, computer professionals A to Z say the reason my computer falls over is because the operating system is buggered. However, plumber J, who dabbles in computers, says it has a demon in it. Hmmm, whom to trust...

Oolon

Quality

Just to echo what previous posters have said, a valid appeal to authority requires that the authority:

1) be knowledgable in their field
2) the field has to be legit (no astrologers)
3) there is little to no controversy among experts about the topic
4) the authority does not have a significant bias
5) be named (oh, but I read some book that says...)

Clutch

Creationist attempts to fend off charge of ignorance by appealing to the scientific authority of a lawyer; response comes that the lawyer is in fact... a lawyer; creationist objects that this response commits fallacy of appeal to authority.

Yep, I agree, that's a strange one.

SEF

Yes, the idea of Phillip Johnson being an authority (on anything other than law one hopes) is laughable.

No, it is not always wrong to appeal provisionally to authority but it is necessary that the alleged authority be relevant. That means the authority could be anyone with a proven track record; which is in turn often indicated by qualifications and peer-reviewed publications and seldom indicated by owning a website or lying more and shouting louder than your opponents. The proviso is that wherever possible one should be able to see that the evidence supports the position of the chosen authority. Being an expert merely means one is more likely to be right than someone who is clueless, not that one is guaranteed to be right.

As one Quincy episode said (paraphrased): as an expert you should not be outraged at being asked to prove your conclusions every single time. Being able to do so is part of being an expert with a proven track record. It is always possible for an expert to be wrong - especially when they are pontificating on a subject which isn't even remotely their own area of expertise.

Plognark

Sounds like someone needs a bit of retraining in logical fallacies

That one is new to me though. Mostly I see no true scotsman being mangled and misused, as indicated in another thread I posted in five minutes ago.