Freethought & Rationalism Archive

sugarhitman · 12-25-2008, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Dagda

Quote:

Originally Posted by sugarhitman

Their own HEBREW CANONICAL BOOK says the Nephilim lived after the flood. Moses and Joshua both decribed these people as GIANTS....the Nephilim. This is what the texts says.

This is not what they believe, they believe their texts were based on a failure to believe in Yahweh. Do you honestly think that all religions think that genesis is of debatable accuracy and it says they all died by logic. The Jews, the Catholics or the Christians think that the Nephilim were not only non existent but they didn't survive the flood whatever they were, it's only the minority of fundamentalists, and they are let's face it grasping at straws that believe otherwise. I can't convince you of this because you've been told by idiots to believe something that no other faith believes. Therefore rather than come into line with the popular front, you'd rather believe everyone else is wrong. Such is fundamentalism. Good luck with that. And the rapture, and all the other non canonical nonsense.

This argument is based on "Modern Midrash" whose interpretations goes against their own texts.

Also my argument was not about the historical accuracy of these text. My argument is based on the stories that says that Israel and other Adamic peoples were displacing the Nephilim whom according to the text were responsible for violence on the earth. So by these stories how can critics accuse God of promoting genocide against "innocent nations"?

The Dagda · 12-25-2008, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sugarhitman

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Dagda

This is not what they believe, they believe their texts were based on a failure to believe in Yahweh. Do you honestly think that all religions think that genesis is of debatable accuracy and it says they all died by logic. The Jews, the Catholics or the Christians think that the Nephilim were not only non existent but they didn't survive the flood whatever they were, it's only the minority of fundamentalists, and they are let's face it grasping at straws that believe otherwise. I can't convince you of this because you've been told by idiots to believe something that no other faith believes. Therefore rather than come into line with the popular front, you'd rather believe everyone else is wrong. Such is fundamentalism. Good luck with that. And the rapture, and all the other non canonical nonsense.

This argument is based on "Modern Midrash" whose interpretations goes against their own texts.

Also my argument was not about the historical accuracy of these text. My argument is based on the stories that says that Israel and other Adamic peoples were displacing the Nephilim whom according to the text were responsible for violence on the earth. So by these stories how can critics accuse God of promoting genocide against "innocent nations"?

I think you have your answer then. Canon says that the Nephilim are antediluvian, and traditional Jewish and Christian observance agrees. Non-traditional Ethiopian orthodox agrees also. There are no churches that believe that there was a reason to blame the nephilim, or use them as an excuse for genocide, that was all on God saying to Jeramiah and others that idolaters should be destroyed man woman or child. In that case there is no immorality, if we accept that what God wills can never be immoral. That seems more simple than the contradiction that would be the Nephilim surviving the flood.

arnoldo · 12-25-2008, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Dagda

Quote:

Originally Posted by sugarhitman

This argument is based on "Modern Midrash" whose interpretations goes against their own texts.

Also my argument was not about the historical accuracy of these text. My argument is based on the stories that says that Israel and other Adamic peoples were displacing the Nephilim whom according to the text were responsible for violence on the earth. So by these stories how can critics accuse God of promoting genocide against "innocent nations"?

I think you have your answer then. Canon says that the Nephilim are antediluvian, and traditional Jewish and Christian observance agrees. Non-traditional Ethiopian orthodox agrees also. . .

The Eyptian Execration text possibly mentions the Anaqim living in the land of Canaan, note:

Quote:

There are two types of execration texts from the 12th Dynasty of Egypt. The oldest type are inscribed red clay bowls that date to the reign of Sesostris III (1878-1842 B.C.). The second type, dating a generation or two later (Middle Bronze II, 1800-1630 BC) are clay figurines which list cities along major routes of travel (McCarter 1996, 43). The Egyptians practiced the magical cursing of their enemies by inscribing pottery bowls and figurines with the names of their enemies, and then smashing them to break the power of their enemies. "Iy-anaq" is named which may be related to the Anaqim or giants who dwelt in Canaan before the conquest (ANET 1969, 328)
http://www.bibleandscience.com/history/egyptian.htm

Joshua 11:21-22 also refers to the Anakim in the following verse:

Quote:

21 And at that time came Joshua, and cut off the Anakims from the mountains, from Hebron, from Debir, from Anab, and from all the mountains of Judah, and from all the mountains of Israel: Joshua destroyed them utterly with their cities. 22 There was none of the Anakims left in the land of the children of Israel: only in Gaza, in Gath, and in Ashdod, there remained.

Sheshonq · 12-25-2008, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldo

The Eyptian Execration text possibly mentions the Anaqim living in the land of Canaan, note:

Your website is another creationist / Flood archaeology / Chariots of the Gods nonsense website. How utterly...unexpected of you, arnoldo.

As soon as you find a reputable, non-apologetic source for this, let us know. At this point, your claims (and your sources) are just National Enquirer-level tabloid silliness.

arnoldo · 12-25-2008, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheshonq

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldo

The Eyptian Execration text possibly mentions the Anaqim living in the land of Canaan, note:

Your website is another. . .

Again, if you have any proof that the Egyptian Execration text is a fraud please provide the information instead of the usual hyperbole. FYI,an example of a scholarly, peer reviewed journal on the subject is the following article from JSTOR: A Response to Anson Rainey's "Remarks on Donald Redford's Egypt, Canaan, and Israel in Ancient Times", by Donald B. Redford

Sheshonq · 12-25-2008, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Your website is another. . .

Again, if you have any proof that the Egyptian Execration text is a fraud

No one said the Egyptian text was a fraud. Only that your website is a homemade whackjob website, complete with unscientific claims and assertions about what that Egyptian text demonstrates.

Quote:

.....Donald Redford....

*sigh*

Poor arnoldo. You see, I own Redford's book. I've owned it for more than a decade. I can assure you that it does not support your viewpoint. Nor does it support the lame website you tried to offer as proof. As usual, you have gotten yourself confused between (a) a legitimate artifact and (b) the claims made about that artifact.

Funny how you always resist getting your information from reputable, scientific sources. Is it laziness? Is it intellectual disingenuousness?

Or could it be that you already realize that reputable science and archaeology rejects your views? Therefore your only choice is to go with tabloid websites and creationist nonsense?

Yes, that would explain it.

sugarhitman · 12-26-2008, 02:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheshonq

Quote:

Your website is another. . .

Again, if you have any proof that the Egyptian Execration text is a fraud

No one said the Egyptian text was a fraud. Only that your website is a homemade whackjob website, complete with unscientific claims and assertions about what that Egyptian text demonstrates.

Quote:

.....Donald Redford....

*sigh*

Poor arnoldo. You see, I own Redford's book. I've owned it for more than a decade. I can assure you that it does not support your viewpoint. Nor does it support the lame website you tried to offer as proof. As usual, you have gotten yourself confused between (a) a legitimate artifact and (b) the claims made about that artifact.

Funny how you always resist getting your information from reputable, scientific sources. Is it laziness? Is it intellectual disingenuousness?

Or could it be that you already realize that reputable science and archaeology rejects your views? Therefore your only choice is to go with tabloid websites and creationist nonsense?

Yes, that would explain it.

Its interesting how a Muslim (or have you renounced your faith?) can accuse a Christian for believing in things "not backed by science" and yet believes Mohammed flew into the sky from the dome of the rock and other unscientific things that Islam promotes (like the Genie).

Just say you don't agree with us and don't accuse us of believing in similer things your own faith believes.

TheRealityOfMan · 12-26-2008, 03:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sugarhitman

Its interesting how a Muslim (or have you renounced your faith?) can accuse a Christian for believing in things "not backed by science" and yet believes Mohammed flew into the sky from the dome of the rock and other unscientific things that Islam promotes (like the Genie).

Do you find things like prophets ascending into heaven with angels strange beliefs?

Do you find things like Jesus ascending into heaven with angels strange beliefs?

Do you find UFO wacky theories that say things like the Queen is a shapeshifting lizard being a little far-fetched?

Do you find stories about orcs (fel humans with demon blood) and goblins and ogres entertaining but find it hard to believe that they have actually walked this earth because of what you may have read from UFO wacky websites?

Do you like Disney's Aladdin and enjoy Robin Williams genie character but find it wierd to think that Arabs still talk about genie (or djinn) as if are real today?

Do you find it wierd to think that Americans still talk about angels and devils as if they are real today?

Exciter · 12-26-2008, 07:13 AM

lol, Giant Genie!

:eating_popcorn:

arnoldo · 12-26-2008, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheshonq

Quote:

Your website is another. . .

Again, if you have any proof that the Egyptian Execration text is a fraud

No one said the Egyptian text was a fraud.

So is the interpretation that the Egyptian text is refering to Anaqim living in the land of Canaan valid in your opinion?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheshonq

Only that your website is a homemade whackjob website, complete with unscientific claims and assertions about what that Egyptian text demonstrates.

Quote:

.....Donald Redford....

*sigh*

Poor arnoldo. You see, I own Redford's book. I've owned it for more than a decade. I can assure you that it does not support your viewpoint.

Noone on this forum wants your assurances, since you have the book please provide evidence which supports your Ad hominem stance towards Donald Redord. In the meantime here is Dr. Redford's website at the Minnesota State University where the rest of us can judge his work based on the evidence of his publications, archaelogical research, credentials, etc.
http://www.mnsu.edu/emuseum/informat...rd_donald.html

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

12-26-2008, 07:13 AM	#109
Exciter Banned Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: America? Posts: 1,168	lol, Giant Genie! :eating_popcorn:

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.