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Old 05-23-2012, 02:57 PM   #391
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But this does not address the question of the need for many corrections in Acts, and the fact that Acts was assigned a position alongside the epistles despite the contradictions. So are we to assume that every time an epistle has an idea that is different from Acts that it is a "correction" and that the authors never knew that the two contradictory stories would go together? And that the name Saul couldn't have been included in a single epistle?...
There is NO need to ASSUME anything. We have WRITTEN statements in Acts and Galatians and logical deductions can be made from those very written statements.

These sorts of things are done everyday throughout the world. Written statements are examined and deductions are made.

Saul in Acts is introduced LONG AFTER the Great Commission and Authorisation to preach the Jesus story by the Apostles of Resurrected Jesus.

It is IMPERATIVE that you remember the chronology.

The Great Commission was to the Apostles FIRST.

The Apostles ACTED ---SAUL RE-ACTED with persecutions.

The author of Acts DOCUMENTED the ACTS of SAUL.

The author of ACTS wrote NOTHING of a letter to Galatians by SAUL.

The GALATIANS letter is AFTER ACTS of the Apostles.
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Old 05-23-2012, 11:36 PM   #392
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Well I'll be darned! I was under the impression that Acts were written long after Galatians.
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Old 05-23-2012, 11:47 PM   #393
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According to some sources I have here, Luke was the author of Acts, at least thirty to forty years after Paul/Saul is dead. Long after Galatians which is one of the early epistles of Paul/Saul.
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Old 05-24-2012, 12:18 AM   #394
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Apostolic succession was so important to the proto-orthodoxy
:rolling: What did I tell you?
That you feel you need to project your predilections onto others.

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"Homosexuality ban, Easter, now priesthood. What next? Papacy? " May 19, 2012

Bingo!
Looks like we have a winner tonight, ladies and gentlemen. Prize is a makeover at Nolene Dupre's Beauty Salon including full-facial and wax job.
Interesting projection.
Deep response.
Proportionate.
...to your usual efforts.
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Old 05-24-2012, 12:52 AM   #395
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Well I'll be darned! I was under the impression that Acts were written long after Galatians.
Most people think that it was. aa5874 has his own views, and most people here have given up on trying to reason with him.

Most people think that Paul wrote his letters in the mid first century, and that Acts was written sometime in the second century. Acts does not reference Paul's letters, because it was written by a different church faction (anti-Marcionite), and the letters represented the Marcionite faction.

There is a minority view, which has some logic behind it, that parts of Paul's letters were written about the same time as Acts, or were revised to counter Acts.
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Old 05-24-2012, 02:35 AM   #396
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Originally Posted by Paul Couchoud at Radikalkritik
Did Marcion cut off text parts in the long edition or did the long addition add on to the Apostolicon? In other words: which was the first edition of the Paulina?
For the authors of the Church there was no problem. They used the long edition, which had been declared to be the only canonical one. Of course they considered it to be the original version. When they got their hands on the alternate, they already knew it had been stamped heretical. They found three epistles and a lot of passages missing and they couldn’t help but come to the conclusion that the heretical Marcion had cut them out.
Irenaeus (I, 27, 2) declares that Marcion cut off (abscidit) the epistles of the Apostle and eliminated everything concerning the Creator God and the prophecies.
Tertullian says that Marcion carefully erased (industria erasit V, 3; V, 14), suppressed (abstulit V, 13) leaving traces as thieves do (ut furibus solet V, 4); that he dug deep ditches in one place, taking away what he wanted (quantas foveas… fecerit auferendo quœ voluit V, 13); that he made an immense breach in another place (amplissimum abruptum intercisse scripturae V, 14). Tertullian proclaims the integrity of the catholic document (nostri instrumenti integritate V, 13) and with a rude remark causes Marcion’s sponge veritably to blush (erubescat spongia Marcionis! V, 4).
More soberly Epiphanius, too, asserts that Marcion had abbreviated (perite,mnwn Haer. 42, 9) the Apostle’s epistles.
Translated from the French by Frans-Joris Fabri and Michael Conley, 2002

The opinion of Couchoud is that the catholic edition contains additions, which became necessary to contradict Marcion's Apostolicon.
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Old 05-24-2012, 02:48 AM   #397
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Apostolic succession was so important to the proto-orthodoxy
:rolling: What did I tell you?
That you feel you need to project your predilections onto others.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sotto voce View Post
"Homosexuality ban, Easter, now priesthood. What next? Papacy? " May 19, 2012

Bingo!
Looks like we have a winner tonight, ladies and gentlemen. Prize is a makeover at Nolene Dupre's Beauty Salon including full-facial and wax job.
Interesting projection.
Deep response.
Proportionate.
...to your usual efforts.
Make up your mind.
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Old 05-24-2012, 05:03 AM   #398
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Toto, why would a different faction like Paul as much as the faction thst wrote epistles from Marcion? He is certainly an important person in Acts. Why wouldn't the anti-Marcion faction reject Paul?
Personally I take all the stuff about Marcion with a huge grain of salt.There is nothing about him except through the pens of enemies.

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Well I'll be darned! I was under the impression that Acts were written long after Galatians.
Most people think that it was. aa5874 has his own views, and most people here have given up on trying to reason with him.

Most people think that Paul wrote his letters in the mid first century, and that Acts was written sometime in the second century. Acts does not reference Paul's letters, because it was written by a different church faction (anti-Marcionite), and the letters represented the Marcionite faction.

There is a minority view, which has some logic behind it, that parts of Paul's letters were written about the same time as Acts, or were revised to counter Acts.
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Old 05-24-2012, 05:37 AM   #399
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Well I'll be darned! I was under the impression that Acts were written long after Galatians.
Most people think that it was. aa5874 has his own views, and most people here have given up on trying to reason with him.

Most people think that Paul wrote his letters in the mid first century, and that Acts was written sometime in the second century. Acts does not reference Paul's letters, because it was written by a different church faction (anti-Marcionite), and the letters represented the Marcionite faction...
Your response is Pathetic and Extremely troubling. My position is SOLID and cannot be contradicted by any credible evidence from antiquity.

Most people do NOT use the evidence available. Please, refer to the list of Dated New Testament Papyri.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...stament_papyri

I no longer accept what most people PRESUME. Those days are over. At one time MOST people PRESUMED the earth was flat.

Most people IGNORE the fact that there is NO DATED Text by Paleography or C 14 for any New Testament Manuscript in the 1st century, before c 70 CE, and continue, as if in a dream, to SPOUT absurdities using Acts of the Apostles to date the Pauline activities.

Acts of the Apostles can NO longer be used to date Pauline activities when it may have been written 180 years AFTER the Fall of the Temple.

The Dated New Testament Manuscript has REVEALED that there was NO Jesus, No disciples and NO Paul in the 1st century and before c 70 CE.

Most people IGNORE the DATED New Testament Manuscript because they CONTRADICT their position and would make their view OBSOLETE.

The dated New Testament Papyri makes Ehrman and Doherty OBSOLETE.

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...There is a minority view, which has some logic behind it, that parts of Paul's letters were written about the same time as Acts, or were revised to counter Acts.
Please don't tell me anything about minority view, you can Tell Doherty that. The Pauline Jesus was crucified in the Sub-Lunar is a Minority view.

I am done with views, majority or minority, that have NO credible evidence.

I am dealing with the DATED New Testament Manuscript and the sources of antiquity that are compatible with them.

It is TIME people here start doing HISTORY based on Dated Manuscripts instead of relying on what Most people Presume.
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Old 05-24-2012, 05:44 AM   #400
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...to your usual efforts.
Make up your mind.
Arguments is 12a....
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