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Old 04-25-2013, 12:31 PM   #11
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http://liberatenet.org/2012/09/14/th...righteousness/

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“This is our theology, by which we teach a precise distinction between these two kinds of righteousness, the active and the passive” (Martin Luther, Lectures on Galatians 1535). There are “two kinds of righteousness” because human beings live in two kinds of relationships: 1) creature with Creator and 2) creature with creature. Before God (coram Deo), people are passive, receiving righteousness by grace through faith on account of Christ (Rom 3:21-24; 5:17; 10:6; Phil 3:9; cf. Rom 3:28; Gal 2:16). Before the world (coram mundo), people are active, serving their neighbor in love (Rom 13:8-19; Gal 5:13-14). This distinction is essential because, as Luther put it, it ensures that “morality and faith, works and grace … are not confused. Both are necessary, but both must be kept within their limits” (Lectures on Galatians 1535). To be human is to be two-dimensional: passive (i.e. receptive) before God and active (i.e. loving) before the world.
If we are discussing this, is there a problem with saying so? And what relationship does this have to the translation of this verse?
Luther was well aware of the need to force people into his conception of the Kingdom of God. Theology is and was a useful tool for the rulers to control the people. Luke appears to be aware here of this political reality.


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Old 04-25-2013, 12:36 PM   #12
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Pete

It's one thing to have stupid ideas. I have a lot of them too. But when those ideas come up against a brick wall, it's best to abandon them. Even the Will E Coyote only tries each stupid idea once.

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Old 04-25-2013, 12:43 PM   #13
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I wonder if you know what the term "theological passive" means and what those who use it are claiming.
The key point relates to the use of the active and passive sense and the difference between "everyone forces their way into God's Kingdom" as contrasted to "everyone is being forced into God's Kingdom".
So the answer is no. Thanks for confirming what I thought to be the case.
The term "theological passive" seems to refer to a verb in the passive voice that has as its subject God, though He is not explicitly mentioned. Let me say I do not see God or theology anywhere inside the new and strange testament and am quite confident in explaining anything that is theological in terms of the politics of profane history.

I do not for one second believe that Luke was writing about God's Kingdom without a political intermediatory sponsoring his writing. I do not believe for one moment that any of the gospel authors or early Christians wrote as instruments of the so-called "holy spirit", but rather these texts were commissioned by a human agent who has yet to be identified.






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Old 04-25-2013, 01:02 PM   #14
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Luke 16:16

Geza Vermes, The authentic Gospels of Jesus, Penguin Books,
ISBN 139780141003603.Page 128




The NT is inviting the reader to consider whether any profound change in the way a given society is organized would be accessible without upsetting anybody and hence peaceful?
Well when the conversion of the Roman Empire to the centralised monotheistic state Christian cult occurred it was certainly not peaceful. It appeared to be a top-down projection of political power directed against all other religious cults and was characterised then and ever since by heresiological operatives.

Jesus said he was bringing a sword to the party, and if everyone who heard the good news of the New God's Roman Kingdom were forced into it by the sword, then Jesus meant business by bringing the sword to the party.

And the new law was quite simple:

"Religious privileges are reserved for Christians"




εὐδαιμονία | eudaimonia
Christianity followed the peaceful model of the mustard seed:” the imperceptible gestation before the manifestation of the Kingdom of God.”

It is because Christianity silently grew like a mustard seed that the conversion of Constantine appears to be so important.


Quote:
Matthew 13:31-32
New International Version (NIV)
The Parables of the Mustard Seed and the Yeast
31 He told them another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed, which a man took and planted in his field. 32 Though it is the smallest of all seeds, yet when it grows, it is the largest of garden plants and becomes a tree, so that the birds come and perch in its branches.”

Heresy is nothing more than a difference of opinion , but that difference can generate a malevolent situation in any society, at anytime and whatever the subject for discussion.

Religion tends to prolong the unhealthy environment because the revelation from god is an eternal guideline for the living and this revelation also rules the- living-world –of the –dead.

The losers exaggerate the malevolence of the winner.
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Old 04-25-2013, 01:05 PM   #15
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Stephan,

When I proclaim the Good News that God's Christian Kingdom is a fabricated cartoon story, and all the Christian generations of men, women and children before me have been forced into it since the 4th century by political rulers and self-indulgent authoritarian following theologians, I do not force these ideas on anyone.

The New Testament is a very serious and totally humourless book certainly used (and possibly even designed) by the very serious Romans to be a very serious holy writ. The Romans prided themselves on their seriousness and their ruthless regime of power and greed.
"'Weight' was the quality they most respected;
'Gravitas' was the typical Roman virtue.
By 'gravitas' they meant
the type of personality that must be taken seriously;
they were serious men themselves and they demanded
that they should be treated with respect."


--- The Roman Character, SPQR; Kennedy & White (1944)




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Pete

It's one thing to have stupid ideas. I have a lot of them too. But when those ideas come up against a brick wall, it's best to abandon them. Even the Will E Coyote only tries each stupid idea once.

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Old 04-26-2013, 05:16 PM   #16
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Luke 16:16: The Good News of God's Kingdom Is Proclaimed and Everyone Is Forced into It by Ilaria L. E. Ramelli, Journal of Biblical Literature , Vol. 127, No. 4 (Winter, 2008), pp. 737-758.

Ramelli argues for the above translation of Luke 16:16.

This essentially supports conversion to Christianity by the sword.

Please discuss.




εὐδαιμονία | eudaimonia
Dr. A. Nyland states the following concerning Matthew 11:12 in her book, The Gospel of Thomas. (or via: amazon.co.uk)

Quote:
We now know the scripture has nothing to do with heaven suffering violence of forcefully advancing. The actual translation is, "From the time of John the Baptizer until now, Heaven's Realm is being used or even robbed by people who have no legal right to it. This stops those who do have a legal right to it from enjoying their own property."
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Old 04-30-2013, 12:45 AM   #17
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http://liberatenet.org/2012/09/14/th...righteousness/



If we are discussing this, is there a problem with saying so? And what relationship does this have to the translation of this verse?
Luther was well aware of the need to force people into his conception of the Kingdom of God. Theology is and was a useful tool for the rulers to control the people. Luke appears to be aware here of this political reality.


εὐδαιμονία | eudaimonia
Why to learn about the theology of domination from amateurs when Judaism is the teacher of us all

Judaism is as intolerant as the worst. I have seen this warning in a Judaism forum

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The use of obscenity (i.e. references to false, pagan "gods" including those of Christianity) will result in the entire post that includes it being rejected

As for blasphemy and punishment, Judaism is the teacher of us all.
Exodus 32: 18. But [Moses] said: "[It is] neither a voice shouting victory, nor a voice shouting defeat; a voice of blasphemy I hear."

Quote:
Moses cried out, "Whoever is for G-d, join with me!" (Ib. 32:26) Yet so profound was the people's sense of shame and guilt that they found themselves unable or unwilling to declare their loyalty to G-d, effectively refusing His invitation to repent. Only the tribe of Levi rallied to Moses and, upon his command, they put to death the 3000 who had worshipped the Golden Calf
http://www.jewishworldreview.com/jewish/jhistory6.php3

The murdering tribe of Levi is loved by god. The same god of the Dominicans and imams
Quote:
For this reason, G-d designated the tribe of Levi as the priestly tribe, to tend the tabernacle in the desert and minister in the Temple in Jerusalem

Judaism explains that the edifying incident was the fault of the goyim – pagans in Christianity and kuffurs in Islam
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At the height of their panic, a solution was proposed by members of the mixed multitude, the Egyptians who had joined the Jewish people as converts
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Old 05-01-2013, 12:34 AM   #18
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Luke 16:16: The Good News of God's Kingdom Is Proclaimed and Everyone Is Forced into It by Ilaria L. E. Ramelli, Journal of Biblical Literature , Vol. 127, No. 4 (Winter, 2008), pp. 737-758.

Ramelli argues for the above translation of Luke 16:16.

This essentially supports conversion to Christianity by the sword.

Please discuss.
Dr. A. Nyland states the following concerning Matthew 11:12 in her book, The Gospel of Thomas. (or via: amazon.co.uk)

Quote:
We now know the scripture has nothing to do with heaven suffering violence of forcefully advancing. The actual translation is,
"From the time of John the Baptizer until now, Heaven's Realm is being used or even robbed by people who have no legal right to it. This stops those who do have a legal right to it from enjoying their own property."

Thanks Arnaldo.

It is of course true that the author Ramelli discusses Matthew 11:12 as well as Luke 16:16 because they are very similar. It is interesting to note that Nyland makes her own translation as your have quoted above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mat 11:12 NIV

From the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of heaven has been subjected to violence, [1] and violent people have been raiding it.

[1] Or been forcefully advancing
In the translation from Nyland it sounds like "Heaven's Realm" is being described like intellectual property, replete with infringement disputes and rightful legality claims.


The plot thickens.






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Old 05-01-2013, 12:53 AM   #19
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The plot thickens.
The only thing that's thick here is your head. I know Ilaria personally. I have corresponded with her many times. She even cited me in one of her most recent articles - Ilaria L. E. Ramelli, “The Birth of the Rome–Alexandria Connection: The Early Sources on Mark and Philo, and the Petrine Tradition” Studia Philonica XXII 2011 https://secure.aidcvt.com/sbl/ProdDe...ype=BL&PCS=SBL Why do you persist on pretending that these scholars agree with your nonsensical interpretation of material? Do you want me to show this to Ilaria and have her respond? Of course not. You try to encourage flawed interpretations of existing scholarly works in order to pretend that these people support your conspiracy theory. I can guarantee you that Ilaria will not become a spokesperson for any of your ridiculous theories. So can we move on?
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Old 05-01-2013, 03:20 AM   #20
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Dr. A. Nyland states the following concerning Matthew 11:12 in her book, The Gospel of Thomas. (or via: amazon.co.uk)

Thanks Arnaldo.

It is of course true that the author Ramelli discusses Matthew 11:12 as well as Luke 16:16 because they are very similar. It is interesting to note that Nyland makes her own translation as your have quoted above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mat 11:12 NIV

From the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of heaven has been subjected to violence, [1] and violent people have been raiding it.

[1] Or been forcefully advancing
In the translation from Nyland it sounds like "Heaven's Realm" is being described like intellectual property, replete with infringement disputes and rightful legality claims.


The plot thickens.






εὐδαιμονία | eudaimonia
How is Matt 11:12 a part of a plot?
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