show_no_mercy

Science doesn't really "change", it simply accomodates new evidence into working models. For example, when people thought the Earth was flat, they were wrong, but people who thought the Earth was round were less wrong than the flat-Earthers. The flat-Earthers were using all of the evidence they had available to them and when more evidence came along, they went where the evidence lead them.

Relativity of Wrong.

archaeologist

One fo the problems in dealing with opponents of the Bible on this subject is that they become literalists when it suits them. You are forgetting that, like today, people who did not accept God's word as written changed the Bible to fit their beliefs (Latoourette:2003:133)

You cannot expect to find every ancient mss. to be what the disciples wrote, that is just unrealistic given the above fact. A modern day example would be the Jehovah Witnesses and the man who wrote 'the message' and the woman scholar who did her own version (the names slip my mind at the moment)

To point to just any mss. and say that the Bible has been edited would be wrong and based upon false assumptions. God promised to preserve His word thus we must have faith and confidence that He has done so regardless of the many altered texts of the past.

Actually, I rely on God to bring me to the right doctor and the right treatment but your argument does not prove that truth changes, all science is doing is learning the truth from its past mistakes. The Bible doesn't have t do that for it is the truth and has made no mistakes.

You also forget that science is filled with fallible, corrupt men who do not listen to God and do things to make money not to heal their patients thus you cannot even make the argument you are making because you are not being honest and using all the data available.

You also forget that science doesn't fix things. How many medicines have side effects worse than the disease? And you forget when science can't fix things and babies (SID), children (diseases) teens, (accidents caused by science) and adults die.

You want science to fix things because it would give you an alternative to the Bible and God but in reality science is powerless.

This is an erroneous idea and the modern world has bought into believing ancient tales and extrapolating that belief upon the ancients. You forget that Roman shipwrecks have been found in South America, that the Pheonicians and the Minoans were great sailors, and other evidence from geographers etc., who plotted the circumference of the globe to within modern measurments.

You also mistakenly think that some scriptural passages present the idea that the Biblical writers considerd the world flat but that is an erroneous interpretation of those passages.

show_no_mercy

Evidence?

In order to discredit my vague "when people thought the Earth was flat" statement, you're going to have to provide evidence that every human civilization that has ever existed all thought that the Earth was round.

And besides, the Earth being "round" is also wrong. It's just less wrong than the Earth being flat.

Barring the fact that I didn't even bring the bible into this discussion, I suppose that you know the minds of the people who wrote Genesis? I suppose you go out and play darts with them on the weekend so you can set us straight, huh?

bacht

Archeologist, what about the idea that science simply uncovers more of "God's handiwork"? Most discoveries have come from extending our senses beyond human scale, like using microscopes. The technology for example that goes into computers is based on discoveries in metallurgy, chemistry, plastics, electricity etc. But there materials and processes were already present, we just hadn't explored them yet.

[I believe a very close approximation of the earth's circumference was made by the pagan Greek Eratosthenes near the end of the 3nd C bce, using reason and simple geometry (he had no way to confirm the actual number).]

Keith&Co.

Believe that the Books is preserved AGAINST the evidence of the altered texts? That's some kinda faith, there. Bugknuckle insane logic, but powerful faith.

So you still choose the technology over straight prayer.

I don't think anyone is saying anything different. The march of science is always upwards.


So now you DO want to use evidence in an argument.
Okay. Define 'filled' and show that 'science' is filled with corrupt men.

Last time you met a 4-year old child suffering from polio?

A rather grand claim. How many?

Sure. But any objective analysis of the last 2000 years shows that 'science' has been improving the quality of life.

Powerless?
How many people do you know that have diabetes and find that insulin is a pretty good thing to have? How much insulin used in this country exists only because science has made other species produce human insulin?

You're just naysaying a good thing because you want something else to be better. Hell, you just want it to exist.

archaeologist

http://www.kotamama.com/phase2m.htm

After you do the same to prove they thought the world was flat.

It was a preventive post because I knew you or someone would eventually bring it up. I could tell you but you would just dismiss it by saying 'magic' or some other erroneous comment.

All that means is that science is way behind God and cannot be counted on to be the truth. Yes it can discover what God did, but that doesn't change the idea that the truth is always the truth. Those discoveries are only finding out what has always been there.

It would be magic if those combinations only took place inthe modern world and could not be done in the ancient. Remember the idea of a 'computer' goes back to ancient Greece and keep in mind the Bible verse, 'thereis nothing new under the sun.'

We know that the Babylonians had the Pythgorium theorum 2,000 years before Pythagrius(sp) 'discovered' it. So the truth has always been in existence and it doesn't take science to find it.

archaeologist

If you cannot believe God's promise about preserving His word how canyou believe His promise about salvation then?

No, Not what I said. Don't change my words.

Yet science is playing catch-up and does not trump the Bible.

Last time you met a mongoloid child.

Really? this after the invention of guns, bombs, tanks, pesticides that kill people though they were created to kill bugs, numerous poisons plus the fact that people sit on their computers, watch t.v.s, play with video games all the while ignoring other people etc.

You have a distorted view of the quality of life.

Yet they can still die of diabetes or diabetes related illnesses plus insulin shock and over-doses of insulin. kidney dialysis is only a temporary fix and doe snot heal the infected kidney. there are many examples of where science fails and you only look at the things that fit your argument not the whole picture.

aa5874

But, God did CHANGE the way SALVATION can be obtained based on the very Bible.

4000 YEARS ago nobody obtained SALVATION through JESUS based on the Bible.

Either GOD CHANGED ALL THAT or that GOD was replaced.

Why are you presenting bogus information about your GOD?

Look at the changes in the Pauline writings.

Ga 5:2 - Look at Genesis, God commanded males to be circumcised or else the uncircumcised will be cut-off. And the covenant was EVERLASTING.

Ge 17:13-14 YOUR GOD CHANGED.


Your claim that your God does not change has been thoroughly debunked.

Once you ADMIT to be saved by the blood of Jesus then YOU ARE A BENEFACTOR OF THE CHANGE made by your God.

Now, I am having a serious problem. I don't have confidence in what you say about your God. The very Bible debunks you and your changing God.

Now, you must have realised by now that the date for supposed return of the son of God has changed, he is not coming back quickly again in his generation.

Mt 16:28 -

archaeologist

I have about 1 minute:

No God did not change the way of salvation. He required a blood sacrifice in the Old Testament and He required a blood sacrifice in the New. The only difference was whose blood was used and the frequency of sacrifices.

Faith had to be used in the OT and it has to be used in the NT and now.

aa5874

So, God did change. There was a difference. Something changed. The blood of the offspring of the Holy Ghost was used instead of the blood of animals. You are blatantly contradicting yourself.

Now what else is different?

The everlasting covenant of circumcision.

Your God has changed.

And please do not forget that your God may not be coming back. The time is different now, everyone at the supposed trial have tasted death.

I hope you now understand why in science people do change when they have collected new data.

But you wont change even if you have information that contradicts you. That's the difference between science and belief.