Freethought & Rationalism Archive

itsamysteryhuh · 01-24-2008, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by juergen

I'm sure there's tons more ways to find different meanings for flames, fire, and thirst in all kinds of contexts, but that isn't the point, is it? You yourself brought up the question of what these words meant to the people back then, right?

Of course that's one of the points, but there's also the point of many words having several possible definitions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by juergen

Luke 16:24

24And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...31;&version=9;

His problem is physical. He wants water for his tongue, because he is "tormented in this flame." He's not haunted by guilt, he doesn't feel oppression, all he wants is a drop of water.

If you think there is a good reason why people did not understand it as physical suffering, it would be great to hear it now.

If you look at the verse before (verse 23) at the word "torments" (a noun), then look at the possible definitions of "torments," you find it could mean either 1). great physical pain or mental anguish or 2). A source of harassment, annoyance, or pain. Just look up the possible definitions available for other words that haven't been mentioned yet as well, including "cool" and "tongue." Also compare the "comfort" of Lazarus to the (apparent) lack of comfort the rich man is experiencing.

However, please take into consideration that this would all be too early for what is said to take place at the judgement (at Gehenna, the lake of fire).

Spin, you really need to calm down or just read elsewhere. No one is holding a gun to your head keeping you here, so you have the free will to choose. What may appear as "senseless quibbling" to you may not appear the same to others. If it does, they also have the free will to read/post elsewhere. Besides, if I couldn't read, I wouldn't be able to type so well.

:thumbs:

Toto · 01-25-2008, 12:08 AM

Is it time to close this? I don't see any progress.

spin · 01-25-2008, 03:26 AM

Yup. Dumb thread. Silly OP. Ignorance too ignorant to know better. Kill it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by itsamysteryhuh

it's not so easy to argue about such terms if you are truly educated about their meanings.

The truly educated have so spoken. Oh, the irony.

spin

juergen · 01-25-2008, 04:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Is it time to close this? I don't see any progress.

Might be a good idea.

knotted paragon · 01-25-2008, 05:21 AM

Amaleq13 · 01-25-2008, 08:16 AM

Couldn't agree more. Explanations can be provided but not comprehension (Samuel Johnson paraphrase I think). Locked and sinking.

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01-25-2008, 12:08 AM	#112
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	Is it time to close this? I don't see any progress.

01-25-2008, 05:21 AM	#115
knotted paragon Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Korea Posts: 572

01-25-2008, 08:16 AM	#116
Amaleq13 Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Eagle River, Alaska Posts: 7,816	Couldn't agree more. Explanations can be provided but not comprehension (Samuel Johnson paraphrase I think). Locked and sinking.

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