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01-07-2013, 10:55 AM | #221 | |||
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One must bring a little more nuanced and evidence-based analysis to the discussion, not simply charge ahead based on simplistic, isolated readings and rigid mantras like aa does. Whom, by the way, I am going back to ignoring. I am not particularly inclined to beat my head against the wall. Quote:
Again, you need to think such things through to a much greater depth than you do. And that applies to several people here. Earl Doherty |
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01-07-2013, 11:10 AM | #222 | |
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....but if so done, then they were no longer gentiles, nor could they be those gentiles to whom The Law and The Prophets made its specific unconditional promises as to uncircumcised gentile 'nations'. Not all men are born Jews, neither are all men who are born as gentiles required to become Jews, and to follow Jewish laws to recieve those blessings and the promises in the Bible given to the gentiles. Whom are those without the Law. (literally outside of, and thus exempt from the Laws of Moses.) Though the nations ought to hear, to learn, and to know the Law, and the Prophets of Israel, they ought also to know their own particular situation in regards to it; The ger ('stranger') can either keep, or not keep the Passover unto YHWH. He is free and is under no obligation at all to either do so, or not to do so. But the one that chooses to partake of the Jews Passover seder must be circumcised and obey The Law. Any gentile may refrain, and there is no guilt incurred, but the uncircumcised gentile who eats is accursed of The Law. |
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01-07-2013, 11:20 AM | #223 | |
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The Pauline character claimed to have been a Persecutor of the JESUS cult, that he saw and heard from the Resurrected Jesus and that he was Last to be seen of him after over 500 people. The Pauline writer named some in the Jesus cult BEFORE him in Romans 16. It is you who is attempting to impose Paul as pre-Gospel contrary to every writing in all antiquity. Whether the Paul writings were early or late there is NO evidence whatsoever in all antiquity that Pauline Revelations from the Resurrected Jesus Predate the stories of Jesus. No-one argues the the Revelation of John was composed before the Jesus story was known but without a shred of corroboration you are putting forward that the Pauline Revelations from the Resurrected Jesus was composed before the Jesus story was known when not even the Pauline writer made such a claim. The Pauline writer claimed he was the LAST to see the Resurrected Jesus. |
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01-07-2013, 11:31 AM | #224 |
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The epistles provided a very important element for the new religion. Because if all the religion required was reading a couple of gospel stories on Sundays at a meal, what particular IMPLICATION did it have in one's actual every day life? OK, so this guy Yesoos is the "messiah." Fine, now what? What does it mean for me? What does it do for me? So I believe he was the messiah promised by the Jewish religion, what then?
Paulism afforded the believer the ability to GET SOMETHING spiritually tangible out of the belief in Yesoos beyond the declaration of belief. It actually SAVED him, it RECONCILED him to God. Gospelism on its own didn't do any of that. All it did was to tell a story and make a claim, but Paulism gave the believer a stake in the whole thing. |
01-07-2013, 12:06 PM | #225 |
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Whatever of 'Paul' was genuine. Most of it is nothing but adopted and syncretized Platonic theological horse shit, and a fabricated 'apostolic history' to lend an false claim of 'Apostolic' authority to a power grubbing church hierarchy.
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01-07-2013, 12:20 PM | #226 | ||
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Andrew Criddle |
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01-07-2013, 12:35 PM | #227 | |
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Paul says he got his gospel through revelation. He also says (Gal.2:8) that Peter got his authority to bring the gospel to the Jews from GOD, not Jesus. It is flaws like this which make hogwash of the idea of a 2nd century Paul being forged or even extensively redacted by an orthodox church. The same sort of argument applies to an alleged Marcionite creation of Paul, since the Pauline epistles no more promote the beliefs and interests of Marcionite gnosticism than they do a Gospel-based Roman Church. The alleged indications for either are few, paltry and ambiguous, and enjoy other understandings in the context of an authentic 1st century Paul. Earl Doherty |
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01-07-2013, 12:44 PM | #228 | |
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01-07-2013, 12:55 PM | #229 |
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Doherty's Pauline Celestial Never on Earth Jesus is completely flawed and without any corroborative evidence.
Doherty's claim that the Pauline writings are pre-Gospel is also hopelessly flawed. Doherty cannot produce any corroborative evidence from the NT that Jesus of the Canon was NOT claimed to have lived on earth in the flesh as the Son of God who was crucified. Doherty cannot produce any Non-Pauline writings that mentioned the Pauline revealed Gospel and a Celestial Never On Earth Jesus. The writings of gMark, gMatthew, gLuke, gJohn, Acts of the Apostles, Hebrews, the Non-Pauline Epistles, Revelation by John, Aristides, Justin Martyr, Minucius Felix, Theophilus of Antioch, Athengoras of Athens, Melito, Arnobius show that the Pauline writings were NOT even necessary for Christians in the 2nd century. Even Marcion claimed his Phantom Son of God was on earth in Capernaum in the 15th year of the reign of Tiberius --See "Against Marcion" 4. |
01-07-2013, 12:59 PM | #230 | |
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Check out Interpolations in the Pauline Letters (or via: amazon.co.uk) by William O. Walker Jr. (There are threads in the archives on this book, and some online previews.) This is standard material. Get up to speed if you want to have a meaningful conversation. |
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