Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Ecrasez L'infame · 04-04-2007, 02:17 AM

English or translated? If E, words like "phony" are a big clue: basically, US post-Catcher.

Dialogue - you mean it's a play?

"Sources known" - for what? There's no facts given...

Are we even supposed to be trying to find out where it's from? Or just how it stands on its own as a piece of prose? (Pretty good, I'd say - and now you're going to tell me its Archer's Judas and I'll never have the face to post here again.)

Robert

Ecrasez L'infame · 04-04-2007, 02:34 AM

The thing I like about Chris's paragraph is that it could as easily be from a novel about Hitler (for example, mailer's new one) as one about Jesus. It's a horoscope-passage - seems to say very specific things, but actually says nothing that doesn't apply to everybody. So... bearing that in mind... is it supposed to be St Paul speaking?

Laurentius · 04-04-2007, 06:17 AM

I think I wouldn't be able to recognize extracts even from books that I have enjoyed reading. If that means I cannot qualify for being regarded as a literary scholar, then so be it.

Out of curiosity, here is one of the rare passages that I could definitely recognize, but this is only because I loved my mother a lot and her early death saddened me deeply:
How beautiful Mamma's face was when she smiled! It made her so infinitely more charming, and everything around her seemed to grow brighter! If in the more painful moments of my life I could have seen that smile before my eyes, I should never have known what grief is. In my opinion, it is in the smile of a face that the essence of what we call beauty lies. If the smile heightens the charm of the face, then the face is a beautiful one. If the smile does not alter the face, then the face is an ordinary one. But if the smile spoils the face, then the face is an ugly one indeed.

hatsoff · 04-04-2007, 06:52 AM

Hmm. Not to imply I'm a "literary scholar," but let me give you my unschooled amateur thoughts...

It sounds like original English, not a translation--American English. And it sounds like the author was a novelist by profession, as he seems to enjoy the language of his rhetoric, and not just the subject. The "best in my field" remark suggests it is a modern work--late 18th century at the earliest. It has the feel of the 1830s at times and the 1930s other times.

I would say it was written by an American novelist who lived between 1820 and 1950. Based on the general tone, the author seems to have had roots in New England.

So how ridiculously off-base was I?

CJD · 04-04-2007, 07:42 AM

French. 1950s. That's all I have for now.

hallq · 04-04-2007, 11:30 AM

It immediately struck me as Dosteyevski-like, though I sure wish I knew whether or not this is a translation... feels modern, but it could simply be a recent translation of an older work.

Riverwind · 04-04-2007, 01:02 PM

I first thought about responding, but after doing google search after google search on bits and pieces, I was surpised to turn up absolutely nothing. I was surprised, especially, if this is well-known.

Anyway, I also thought it seemed "Dostoyevki-like", however, it still had a slightly different feel to me. It might have been from "The Possessed", but...

My guess is going to be something by "Kafka". He wrote some pretty dark but fascinating stuff. The passage sound just a bit like the story he wrote about becoming a cockroach. Wierd stuff.

DaBuster · 04-04-2007, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ecrasez L'infame

If E, words like "phony" are a big clue: basically, US post-Catcher.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hatsoff

It sounds like original English, not a translation--American English.

These insights seem spot-on to me, but the passage seems rather Nietzsche-esqe, so based on these earlier comments I'd have to guess the passage is by an American author using Nietzsche as a character. A quick search on Amazon turned up a book named When Nietzsche Wept: A Novel of Obsession by Irvin D. Yalom that could be the source of this passage. Are we getting warm?

Chris Weimer · 04-04-2007, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riverwind

I first thought about responding, but after doing google search after google search on bits and pieces, I was surpised to turn up absolutely nothing. I was surprised, especially, if this is well-known.

I didn't say well known. I only meant that I know it. As I told the Lounge folk, I'm more interested in hearing about sources and structure, literary devices, themes, etc...

Who is talking to? What is it talking about?

Posts like hatsoff's and Ecrasez L'infame's, right or wrong, is more what I'm looking for than trying to guess which novel it came from.

Besides, guess all you want, the dirty and gritty stuff should always come first as it will help you identify it.

Riverwind · 04-04-2007, 08:22 PM

Ok. I don't think I'm a 'literary scholar'. What are some of the methods of a literary scholar so I can at least try? Seemed to me like the others were just making guesses as well.. I'm not sure there's enough context for what you would like us to do/learn.

04-04-2007, 02:17 AM	#11
Ecrasez L'infame Regular Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: London, United States of Europe. Posts: 172	More hints needed English or translated? If E, words like "phony" are a big clue: basically, US post-Catcher. Dialogue - you mean it's a play? "Sources known" - for what? There's no facts given... Are we even supposed to be trying to find out where it's from? Or just how it stands on its own as a piece of prose? (Pretty good, I'd say - and now you're going to tell me its Archer's Judas and I'll never have the face to post here again.) Robert

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04-04-2007, 02:34 AM	#12
Ecrasez L'infame Regular Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: London, United States of Europe. Posts: 172	The thing I like about Chris's paragraph is that it could as easily be from a novel about Hitler (for example, mailer's new one) as one about Jesus. It's a horoscope-passage - seems to say very specific things, but actually says nothing that doesn't apply to everybody. So... bearing that in mind... is it supposed to be St Paul speaking?

04-04-2007, 06:17 AM	#13
Laurentius Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Lucky Bucky, Oz Posts: 5,645	I think I wouldn't be able to recognize extracts even from books that I have enjoyed reading. If that means I cannot qualify for being regarded as a literary scholar, then so be it. Out of curiosity, here is one of the rare passages that I could definitely recognize, but this is only because I loved my mother a lot and her early death saddened me deeply: How beautiful Mamma's face was when she smiled! It made her so infinitely more charming, and everything around her seemed to grow brighter! If in the more painful moments of my life I could have seen that smile before my eyes, I should never have known what grief is. In my opinion, it is in the smile of a face that the essence of what we call beauty lies. If the smile heightens the charm of the face, then the face is a beautiful one. If the smile does not alter the face, then the face is an ordinary one. But if the smile spoils the face, then the face is an ugly one indeed.

04-04-2007, 06:52 AM	#14
hatsoff Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Rockford, IL Posts: 740	Hmm. Not to imply I'm a "literary scholar," but let me give you my unschooled amateur thoughts... It sounds like original English, not a translation--American English. And it sounds like the author was a novelist by profession, as he seems to enjoy the language of his rhetoric, and not just the subject. The "best in my field" remark suggests it is a modern work--late 18th century at the earliest. It has the feel of the 1830s at times and the 1930s other times. I would say it was written by an American novelist who lived between 1820 and 1950. Based on the general tone, the author seems to have had roots in New England. So how ridiculously off-base was I?

04-04-2007, 07:42 AM	#15
CJD Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: greater Orlando area Posts: 832	French. 1950s. That's all I have for now.

04-04-2007, 11:30 AM	#16
hallq Regular Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Madison, Wisconsin Posts: 204	It immediately struck me as Dosteyevski-like, though I sure wish I knew whether or not this is a translation... feels modern, but it could simply be a recent translation of an older work.

04-04-2007, 01:02 PM	#17
Riverwind Banned Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Allen, Tx Posts: 604	I first thought about responding, but after doing google search after google search on bits and pieces, I was surpised to turn up absolutely nothing. I was surprised, especially, if this is well-known. Anyway, I also thought it seemed "Dostoyevki-like", however, it still had a slightly different feel to me. It might have been from "The Possessed", but... My guess is going to be something by "Kafka". He wrote some pretty dark but fascinating stuff. The passage sound just a bit like the story he wrote about becoming a cockroach. Wierd stuff.

04-04-2007, 08:22 PM	#20
Riverwind Banned Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Allen, Tx Posts: 604	Ok. I don't think I'm a 'literary scholar'. What are some of the methods of a literary scholar so I can at least try? Seemed to me like the others were just making guesses as well.. I'm not sure there's enough context for what you would like us to do/learn.

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