dog-on

The only thing I find Jewish about the NT is the use of the OT On the other hand, The NT seems to make the argument that the Jews are/were, in fact, wrong.

Almost like someone decided to use the Jew's own stuff against them.

(Which is exactly what they did...).

Clivedurdle

Actually tracking names is probably a very valuable evidential tool - for example my first name from Lord Clive was very popular amongst Welsh and other subordinated people for semi magical reasons - taking on the name of someone powerful magically gives the child powers.

I would definitely use naming styles as a clue to the politics of the time.

rlogan

That is why I find the assertion the Christian tracts are "Jewish" so exasperating. The links to the HB are with any scrutiny superficial and out of context.

Once you put that together with the observation that the Christian tracts were written in a place remote in time and geography from the alleged events then it is clear you have the HB appended onto Christian tracts as a phony pedigree.

show_no_mercy

That seems about right. The Christ depicted in the NT is pretty much the opposite of the Christ that the Jews expected. The Christian Christ is the Jewish Anti-Christ.

Clivedurdle

A strong reason for the NT being Roman anti Jewish propaganda.

Sheshbazzar

Not just the "Jewish" Anti-Christ, but THE Anti-christ. The very personification of a lie, The Deceiver that deceives the nations.

Susan2

What were the ancient Israelites/Jews expecting in a savior? Someone to save the children of Israel, it seems to me, because they had not provided for the salvation of the children themselves? Are they shocked when this new religion is just a repeat? Is it any wonder that they reject this new religion? Did therefore secular law become their hope?

It seems to me that this is possible because there is an internal flaw in Judaism. That same flaw is repeated in Catholicism/Christianity, and possibly Islam. I do not know the text of Islam, but if external evidence is congruent with subjective evidence, Islam contains the same flaw.

What hopes is left? Secular law? Is secular law our last hope of salvation?

show_no_mercy

Salvation from what? The thing that those other religions did is first invent an imaginary problem and then provided their imaginary solution. We have to actually agree that we have a "problem" in the first place if we're going to search for "salvation".

aa5874

And, look at the words of the Christ for Jesus believers in Matthew 5.

Now, look at the words of the Jew, JUDAS Maccabeus, a possible messianic figure, who restored the Temple of Jerusalem as found in the writings of Josephus' Antiquities of the Jews 12.7.3.

Jesus of the NT BETRAYED the JUDAS of Josephus.

Jesus is the Jewish anti-christ, indeed.

Susan2

Perhaps you are being over sensitive to the word salvation? It is only a word; preservation or deliverance from harm, ruin, or loss.


I would think salvation from ourselves. The poor will always be with you begs the question poor in what? Money, morals, ethics, education, and values, compassion, empathy, mercy, are a few examples. Those examples are spread across the broad spectrum of mankind. Iow’s are found in all cultures, nations, religions, sciences, and governments whether atheist, theist agnostic or gnostic. Of course I recognize that this is my opinion.

I found it interesting that you said that the Christian Christ was the Jewish anti-Christ. Is then Islam, the Christian anti-Christ?

What I find to be equally if not more possible is that each religion contains it’s own Anti-Christ, as well as the anti-christ from the religion before, in that they build on one another. The Jews seemed to have been making progress to me, and then Christianity was born, wanting to destroy Jews. Christianity has been making progress as well. And yet Islam is born. Do they want to destroy Christianity? Secularism is born, does it want to destroy, Jews, Christianity, Islam etc.?

I personally value separation of church from state because it is perhaps the only way we can expunge the anti-Christ so to speak form society, from preying on us all, if it can be said that Anti-Christs are a bad thing. But what about the secular anti-christ, the one that preys on secularism, eroding it’s value, jeopardizing it’s continuance. That is what anti-christs do.

It seems to me, and you may correct me if I am wrong, that secular governments that practice separation of church and state, have offered what no religion has offered to date in the history of mankind; protective services to children when religions go wrong.

I have been attempting to research the subject. Maybe I am wrong.

I do not want to derail the thread and apologize in advance if I have.