Freethought & Rationalism Archive

credoconsolans · 05-07-2007, 07:59 PM

What godawful country. Is there any reason to believe the Middle East was any better weather-wise back 2 millennia ago? I know the southwest part of Italy was both warmer and wetter around 80 ce, but how about the Middle East? I've read constantly about the 'beautiful Holy Land' and have never once seen a picture of it that gives truth to that statement. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, maybe?

Riverwind · 05-07-2007, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by credoconsolans

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, maybe?

There is a lot of truth in that statement.

The Herodium is south (south-east) of Jerusalem near Bethlehem. It is not a particularly beautiful area, but it is not quite as dead as it looks in pictures.

The southern part of Israel is not all that pretty, but I found northern Israel to be beautiful (again, perhaps beauty is in the eye of the beholder). I think many people would think that the area around the biblical site of Dan is beautiful (near the border with Lebanon), where there were many tall tress and pools of clear, clean water (the source of the Jordan river is there).

I thought that Mount Carmel was very scenic (near Haifa) as was the area around the Lake of Galilee.

Ben C Smith · 05-07-2007, 08:19 PM

Thanks for those photos, Riverwind.

Ben.

Larsguy47 · 05-07-2007, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yummyfur

Josephus doesn't say it took 25 days, and it's fairly clear the 7 day period of mourning includes his burial, it seems people want to take the 8 stadia a day rate for the funeral procession seriously, as if the text of Josephus is inerrant or something. I mean i can slowly crawl on my hands and knees farther the 8 stadia( somewhat less than a mile) in a six hour period, so the rate is unbelievably slow and clearly a scribal error. I would say that the rate was 28 or 38 stadia a day( a very believable rate), 28 would be roughly 7 days for the 200 stadia route, and 38 would be roughly 6 days. Making it fit nicely with the seven day mourning period. It would also seem strange for Archelaus to be charged with not doing enough for Herod's funeral by his enemies, after have a 25 day funeral procession.

Maybe they took the "scenic route"? :wave: Just kidding. Thanks for that reference. It is in the footnote of the translator (Whiston) that imagines it took 25 days or more. And I understand he died at Jericho not Jerusalem, so another presumption corrected.

LG47

spin · 05-07-2007, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by credoconsolans

Is there any reason to believe the Middle East was any better weather-wise back 2 millennia ago?

Yep. At least in Judea there was a higher (perhaps 50% higher) rainfall allowing for better vegetation cover and thicker tree-rings. (There was an article over a decade ago in what was Biblical Archaeologist which looks at the wood from the ramp the Romans built to reach Masada.)

spin

Riverwind · 05-07-2007, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spin

There was an article over a decade ago in what was Biblical Archaeologist which looks at the wood from the ramp the Romans built to reach Masada.

Speaking of the ramp. I was particularly interested in it, but my video is better. I don't think you can see the wood, but the views of the ramp are interesting. One view is looking straight down it. I suppose this was one of the last views the zealots had while watching the Romans build it:

Larsguy47 · 05-07-2007, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben C Smith

Thanks for those photos, Riverwind.

Ben.

Yes, thanks, both of you. Nice photos!

LG47

spamandham · 05-07-2007, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben C Smith

On XTalk, Jim West has made mention of a news story announcing the discovery of the tomb of Herod the great.

Cool! Does the tomb record a census by chance, or the slaughter of innocents?

Cege · 05-08-2007, 07:00 AM

in today's media reports:

Netzer's current dig focused on a different area that had not been excavated: halfway between the upper and lower palaces. Until now, the search had focused on the lower palace.

Netzer said the tomb was discovered when a team of researchers found pieces of a limestone sarcophagus believed to belong to the ancient king. Although there were no bones in the container, he said the sarcophagus‘ location and ornate appearance indicated it is Herod‘s.

The burial site, in what is now the Israeli-occupied West Bank, was found more than a month ago at the end of an ancient staircase leading up to the hilltop, Netzer said.

"The monumental stairs were built specifically for the funeral," Netzer said. --->>

Netzer and his team concluded the tomb they unearthed, estimated to have been about 2.5 meters (8 feet) long, was Herod's because of its lavish design. One of the limestone remnants possessed a flower-like pattern. No bones were found.

"It was not a sarcophagus that rolled around on the streets, was common or which anyone could afford during the era," Netzer said. "There are only one or two of its kind."

The news conference today should provide further details.

Cege · 05-08-2007, 07:10 AM

There are 32 photos here but several are duplicates.

Riverwind might be able to match up the newly discovered tomb location on one or more of her own photos.

05-08-2007, 07:00 AM	#19
Cege Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: 36078 Posts: 849	More details in today's media reports: Netzer's current dig focused on a different area that had not been excavated: halfway between the upper and lower palaces. Until now, the search had focused on the lower palace. Netzer said the tomb was discovered when a team of researchers found pieces of a limestone sarcophagus believed to belong to the ancient king. Although there were no bones in the container, he said the sarcophagus‘ location and ornate appearance indicated it is Herod‘s. The burial site, in what is now the Israeli-occupied West Bank, was found more than a month ago at the end of an ancient staircase leading up to the hilltop, Netzer said. "The monumental stairs were built specifically for the funeral," Netzer said. --->> Netzer and his team concluded the tomb they unearthed, estimated to have been about 2.5 meters (8 feet) long, was Herod's because of its lavish design. One of the limestone remnants possessed a flower-like pattern. No bones were found. "It was not a sarcophagus that rolled around on the streets, was common or which anyone could afford during the era," Netzer said. "There are only one or two of its kind." The news conference today should provide further details.

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05-07-2007, 07:59 PM	#11
credoconsolans Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: land of the home, free of the brave Posts: 9,729	What godawful country. Is there any reason to believe the Middle East was any better weather-wise back 2 millennia ago? I know the southwest part of Italy was both warmer and wetter around 80 ce, but how about the Middle East? I've read constantly about the 'beautiful Holy Land' and have never once seen a picture of it that gives truth to that statement. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, maybe?

05-07-2007, 08:19 PM	#13
Ben C Smith Veteran Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Midwest Posts: 4,787	Thanks for those photos, Riverwind. Ben.

05-08-2007, 07:10 AM	#20
Cege Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: 36078 Posts: 849	There are 32 photos here but several are duplicates. Riverwind might be able to match up the newly discovered tomb location on one or more of her own photos.

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