premjan

Gospel of Thomas is an esoteric as opposed to exoteric book, unlike the canonical bible. In Islam the Sufi teachings are esoteric. Without an esoteric understanding the meaning as opposed to the form of a religion will be lost. Similarly Vedanta is esoteric and the Vedas are exoteric. In Judaism I suppose the Kabbalah.

aa5874

Which "PAUL" was that? You are SURE about the time "PAUL" died? There are MORE than one time that "PAUL" died.

It is MORE certain that "Paul" died at LEAST TWICE than he died before the Fall of the Temple.

You should have KNOWN that even Scholars have DEDUCED there was MORE than one person who WROTE under the name "PAUL".

"PAUL" died MULTIPLE times based on the deduction of Scholars.

And the EARLY authors in the NT Canon are usually the IMPERSONATORS just like Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.

The Church claimed they were EARLY but it was deduced that they were ALL
late.

spin

Assertions and conjecture don't make useful premises. We try to cite the sources for our claims where necessary. How does one relate Thomas to the other gospels in a relative chronology?

renassault

The Paul of Tarsus that I know you know I'm talking about.

According to who? Paul's writings can be firmly fixed to the 50's and 60 AD.

It's pretty evident which Paul I'm talking about. There are no sane people claiming he wrote after 70 AD because no evidence warrants it.

"PAUL" died MULTIPLE times based on the deduction of Scholars.

This isn't even an argument, this is just the statement of a theory against which all the evidence points.

Let me give you a brief history to your confused state of mind. We have 1 Clement and a ton of other 2nd century AD writings which quote 10 letters of Paul. Ephesians was written no later than 100 seeing it quoted by 120 (for those who don't accept 1 Clement as from 95, I'm not gonna go into the argumnets why it comes from that date). Ephesians knows Colossians, which in turn no scholar dates after 70. Colossians knows Paul and Pauline letters as widespread prior to 70. 2 Thessalonians mentions many letters by Paul, and it was written no later than 100 by any possible stretch of the imagination (except perhaps yours). Stop spreading nonsense please.

renassault

a relative chronology of the Gospel of Thomas' date of composition? That's simple, seeing it was found in Egypt and that it cites the Gospel of John in naming Thomas as Dydimus, no earlier than 130 AD by which time John was widespread in Egypt as per P52. In view of its proto-gnostic nature, it does not predate 100 AD, maybe 90 (after all Egypt, repository of mysticism and gnosticism). It was found amongst a collection of Gnostics being a pretty main factor in and of itself. And it is a sayings Gospel as per the fact that it has.. only sayings.

spin

It's amusing to see you abuse evidence so willfully. You believe that the Roberts palaeographical date for P52 is what should be used to show when John was in wide circulation, but sadly that date is apologetic bias and nothing else. Palaeography has come a way since then. There are more recent analyses that encourage a later date. Consider Andreas Schmidt who looked at it 20 years ago with many more exemplars of the period and concludes a date of 170 CE +/- 25 years. Brent Nongbri ("The Use and Abuse of P52: Papyrological Pitfalls in the Dating of the Fourth Gospel." HTR 98, p.23-52) urges a more cautious dating as well.

Then you need to show why one should think that the naming Thomas as Dydimus must have arisen from John and not have been available in an early christian tradition. Have fun with that.

Lead, lead, lead balloon.... Went down like a ....

Being "proto-gnostic in nature" is vacuous nonsense.

So the book of Deuteronomy was found among the Dead Sea Scrolls. I guess according to your logic Deuteronomy is a proto-Essene effort.

Jaybees

The Dead Sea Scrolls refer to a Teacher of Righteousness, who apparently existed somewhere during the 1st Century BCE. His description reads very much like the Jesus of the gospels, so he may be one of your extra personas.

Steve Weiss

This great teacher, did he have a name? Was he a god-man who did all kinds of miracles? Did he bring eternal peace on earth and goodwill toward men (and women).

aa5874

You really don't know what you are talking about. You should have known that it has been deduced that there were MORE than one person who used the name "Paul" to write Epistles.

It is more certain that the authors called "PAUL" in the PASTORALS died at different times to the author called "PAUL" who wrote Corinthians.

You should KNOW that Church writers claimed "Paul" died under Nero yet the same "Paul" was AWARE of gLuke which was deduced to have been written AFTER Nero was dead.

It must be OBVIOUS to you that "PAUL" must DIE MULTIPLE times or resurrect for those things to be true.

So why don't you do it? Some Pauline writings have been PRESUMED to have been written before the Fall of the Temple.

There is NO known credible corroborative source for "Paul", the Pauline Jesus, the Pauline converts, the Pauline Churches and the Pauline letters before the Fall of the Jewish Temple.

You dare NOT even attempt to show that any Pauline letter can be fixed to any date before the Fall of the Temple because I will EXPOSE your errors immediately.

You don't know what you are talking about. You need to understand that Scholars may think you are INSANE for making such a statement.

"PAUL" died MULTIPLE times based on the deduction of Scholars.

I thought you would have come with some ACTUAL CREDIBLE historical data from antiquity to FIX date of the Pauline writings BEFORE the Fall of the Jewish Temple but you come EMPTY handed.

Well, you probably don't even know that there are NO Pauline writings that have been dated by paleography to the 1st century.

Your history is NOT very good it needs to be UPDATED. I have already passed your stage. You PRESENT BELIEF as evidence. I NO longer ACCEPT belief without CREDIBLE sources of antiquity.

I consider BELIEF without evidence from antiquity as NONSENSE.

You need to understand that UP to the END of the 2nd century that there were Christian writers who could NOT account for "Paul", the Pauline Gospel, "remission of sins by the resurrection", the Pauline converts, the Pauline Churches and ALL the Pauline Epistles.

And further, Christian writers had NO knowledge that a character called "PAUL" preached to a single person anywhere at any time.

See "First Apology" XXXIX We can FIX the Pauline writings AFTER the Fall of the Jewish and AFTER the middle of the 2nd century.