mountainman

Yes. Perhaps containing the most important natural cultural event in the year.


If Lithargoel is held to be presented by the author as the figure of Jesus then it would seem natural for there to be a reference to some form of redeemer.

Best wishes,'


Pete

mountainman

No. I send them to the handwriting experts.

Best wishes


Pete

Jeffrey Gibson

Really? Seems a bit futile to me, since so far as I know, inscriptions on coins were not written by hand.

But even if they were, then -- as you yourself have noted -- any early date you assign to them on the basis of such analysis is not to be accepted, since, as you've stated, dating by types of scribal hands is notoriously unreliable and, as you've claimed with respect to Eusebius, any reputedly "earlier" hand can be copied.

Or are you wrong about this, too?

Jeffrey

Jeffrey Gibson

So now it's "perhaps"? Wow. Yet another change of tune.

And another dodge of my question.

Thanks, Pete!

Even granting this unsubstantiated nonsense, what indicates that it is to "a redeemer of a season/day/month? What do seasons, let alone the Summer solstice or the month of June, need to be redeemed from?

Can't you just for once admit that you are wrong (not to mention that you hadn't read Bede when you first made your claim about how he recounted that "[Lida] was a very important natural event on the longest day of the year in the northern hemisphere, the day of midsummer or Litha as it was known to the celts")?

Jeffrey

mountainman

In my original thread which was itself a question, entitled Would the "redeemer of mid-summer" be a christian or a pagan motif? I ended up asking this question:

A question.

Another question: Is Lithargoel NECESSARILY Jesus? is more important. You will immediately appreciate that I am very much aware that all other authors cited present Lithargoel as Jesus. I point out that the author of the tractate may be making a parody of the (then) christian ministry of the apostles. Lithargeol is a bona fide physician of the form of the tradition of Asclepius; not alike the miraculous stories of the new testament. IMO Lithargoel is not a Jewish Asclepius as was suggested by another writer. Lithargoel is the Hellenic Asclepius - the pagan. IMO the author of the tract is not only an allegorist (with the pearl and the city of nine gates) but a parodist


Best wishes,


Pete

Jeffrey Gibson

So the answer is no. You can't admit you were wrong.

Got it.

Thanks.

Jeffrey

mountainman

Since when is a question wrong? Did I say in my opinion Litha + Goel means this or that in some manner? I have expressed an in my opinion with respect to the key figure in the Acts of Peter and the Twelve Apostles in that I would argue that this figure was not written to be presented as Jesus in the same manner as did the authors of the new testament write their canonical stories.

I refuse to be categorised as wrong by asking a question. And it appears that you wish to avoid the far more contraversial argument concerning the identity of the key figure Lithargoel being representative of an Hellenic Asclepius (the fully fledged physician), or what role was played by the man on the dock of the city in the midst of the sea holding the palm leaf. It is in an opinion -- and not in a question --- that one may demonstrate "wrongness" and thereby illicit an admission for the same.

Best wishes,


Pete

Jeffrey Gibson

Yes.

This is new.

Refuse away. But please note that, as post 5491309 shows, you weren't categorized as wrong for asking a question. You were categorized as wrong for claiming (a) that you had knowledge of Bede when you didn't and for asserting (b) that in his De ratione temporum 15 Bede recounted "how it [Lida] was a very important natural event on the longest day of the year in the northern hemisphere, the day of midsummer or Litha as it was known to the celts".


Is there an Asclepius besides a Greek one?

Jeffrey

mountainman

Well if I did say this I was wrong to say it since at this stage I have not researched the 8th century english language and any links it may (or may not) have had to the Coptic and Greek of the fourth century.


It's old Jeffrey. I am been attempting to discuss this issue without any success whatsoever for some time now.



Hans-Martin Schenke (1973,1989) compares TAOPATTA to Lucian's True Story. According to Schenke, the figure (Lithargoel) may have existed as a Jewish Angel, "something similar to a Jewish Asclepius".


Best wishes,


Pete

Jeffrey Gibson

I didn't think you read German, Pete. So can you please not only (a) tell me where in his 1973 article "'Die Taten des Petrus und der zwolf Apostel" - Die erste Schrift aus Nag-Hammadi-Codex VI', ThLZ 98, Scheneke compares the Acts of Peter etc to Lucian's True Story and says that the figure (Lithargoel) may have existed as a Jewish Angel, "something similar to a Jewish Asclepius" , but (b) give me his exact words on this matter?

And what is his 1989 work in which he says this?

And tell the truth Pete. You haven't actually read Schenke, have you? You just cribbed the above, after doing a google search, from what is noted as p. 157 here:

http://dissertations.ub.rug.nl/FILES...zachesz/c7.pdf

right?


BTW, as your cribbed sources shows, the exact words are "something like a Jewish Asclepius", not "something similar to a Jewish Asclepius". So nice of you to be so precise in your quotations of books/works you haven't read.

And nice of you once again to dodge the matter of how you were wrong about Bede.:wave:

Jeffrey