stephan huller

Rashi seems to interpret the 'master of wings' in Ecclesiastes as being an angelic figure:

“Also in your thoughts do not curse the king and in your sleeping chambers, do not curse the wealthy [person], for a bird of the Heavens will carry the voice and The Master of Wings will relate the matter.” (Eccl 10; 20)

stephan huller

Leviticus Rabba 32.n1ff on the same passage = Eccl 10.20:

Neusner explains:

stephan huller

The point we should see is that Elisha the man of wings is clearly the same divine figure only now associated with the prophet. This divine figure is understood to have appeared during the rebellion with Rome and provided or possessed 'doves wings' for the rebels.

stephan huller

Michael is the 'master of wings' in Pirkei d'Rebbi Eliezer:

stephan huller

The question then is whether Elisha 'the winged creature' in the rabbinic literature is a divine hypostasis. Yes I think he is - he is Metatron, Michael as we have already seen.

But is he Jesus? Yes I have always suspected this was so.

Certainly Elisha’= Yehoshua.

But let us also consider another heretical Elisha from the period - Elisha ben Avuyah. Can Elisha’ ben Avuyah somehow be connected to early Christianity?

If Avuyah is a deliberate alteration of a symbolic name, then the original would have been Aviya אביה which AT THAT TIME (but not when the name came into existence centuries before) would have been taken to mean “my father is Yah”. This would strongly support this theory.

The name Avuyah is otherwise unknown, whereas Aviyah is well attested in the O.T. [Note that in these two names there is a consonantal H at the end. The H is not a vowel-letter here]. There is a reminiscence in the altered form Avuyah of the word “avoy” אבוי meaning “Woe!”.

stephan huller

So was Elisha 'the winged creature' a remembrance of a heavenly Jesus? There certainly was an important juxtaposition in the gospel - even the gospel Marcion used - which is odd. As far as I can remember Elisha is the only prophet mentioned by name in the Marcionite gospel. As Epiphanius says:

Tertullian's parallel section (undoubtedly from the same original lost source):

And other 'antitheses' Marcionites promoted:

The name Jesus is a cognate of Elisha in Hebrew. Jesus means "Yah is salvation," and Elisha means "God is savation." So the two names are related.

stephan huller

In Homilies on Luke 33.5 Origen quotes Luke 4:27, where Jesus castigates his fellow Jews in Nazareth by citing Elisha's curing the foreigner Naaman the Syrian of leprosy and not an Israelite infected with the disease. Origen regarding this that "our Lord and Savior," (Jesus,) is the "spiritual Elisha" who through the sacrament of baptism purifies those steeped in the filth of leprosy:

Origen – Homilies on Luke 33 (Bible and Liturgy, 111) – “No one was purified except Naaman the Syrian, who was not of Israel. See that those who are washed by the spiritual Elisha, Who is our Lord and Savior, are purified in the sacrament of Baptism and cleansed of the stain of the letter (of the law). It is you to whom it was said: ‘Arise, go to the Jordan and wash, and your flesh will be renewed.’ Naaman arose, departed, and, when he had washed, carried out the figure (mysterium) of Baptism. And his flesh became like that of a child. Who is this child? He who is born in the bath of regeneration.”

St Gregory of Nyssa – Bible and Liturgy (112) – “When Elisha sent Naaman the leper to wash himself in the Jordan, and when he cleansed him from his sickness, he suggested what was to come, both by the general use of water and by the special baptism in the river. In fact, alone among rivers, the Jordan received the first-fruits of sanctification and blessing, and poured out, like a spring, the grace of Baptism on the whole world.”

St Ambrose – De Mysteriis III (NPNF Second Edition 10:318) – “Lastly, let the lessons lately gone through from the Kings teach you. Naaman was a Syrian, and suffered from leprosy, nor could he be cleansed by any. Then a maiden from among the captives said that there was a prophet in Israel, who could cleanse him from the defilement of the leprosy. And it is said that, having taken silver and gold, he went to the king of Israel. And he, when he heard the cause of his coming, rent his clothes, saying, that occasion was rather being sought against him, since things were asked of him which pertained not to the power of kings. Elisha, however, sent word to the king, that he should send the Syrian to him, that he might know there was a God in Israel. And when he had come, he bade him dip himself seven times in the river Jordan. Then he began to reason with himself that he had better waters in his own country, in which he had often bathed and never been cleansed of his leprosy; and so remembering this, he did not obey the command of the prophet, yet on the advice and persuasion of his servants he yielded and dipped himself. And being forthwith cleansed, he understood that it is not of the waters but of grace that a man is cleansed. Understand now who is that young maid among the captives. She is the congregation gathered out of the Gentiles, that is, the Church of God held down of old by the captivity of sin, when as yet it possessed not the liberty of grace, by whose counsel that foolish people of the Gentiles heard the word of prophecy as to which it had before been in doubt. Afterwards, however, when they believed that it ought to be obeyed, they were washed from every defilement of sin. And he indeed doubted before he was healed; you are already healed, and therefore ought not to doubt.”

Gerhard – Comprehensive Explanation (20) – “In 2 Kings 5:14 Naaman, upon the bidding of the prophet Elisha, washed himself in the Jordan, and was cleansed of his leprosy because of that. This is a type of holy Baptism for Christ, the Head of the Church, let Himself be baptized in the Jordan . . . and thereby sanctified the Jordan and all other water so that it washes us from sin in holy Baptism.”

Elisha Lifts Axe-Head from Water through Wood (2 Kings 6) – Christ Lifts Us from Death through Water and the Wood of His Cross

Justin Martyr – Dialogue with Trypho LXXXVI 6 (Bible and Liturgy, 109) – “Elisha threw a piece of wood into the stream of the Jordan. By this means, he retrieved from the water the iron of the axe with which the sons of the prophets wished to cut the wood to build their house. So our Christ has ransomed us at Baptism from our heaviest sins by His crucifixion on the wood and Baptism in the water.”

Irenaeus – Against the Heretics V 17:3 (ANF 1:545)– “By means of a tree we were made debtors to God, [so also] by means of a tree we may obtain the remission of our debt. This fact has been strikingly set forth by many others, and especially through means of Elisha the prophet. For when his fellow-prophets were hewing wood for the construction of a tabernacle, and when the iron [head], shaken loose from the axe, had fallen into the Jordan and could not be found by them, upon Elisha’s coming to the place, and learning what had happened, he threw some wood into the water. Then, when he had done this, the iron part of the axe floated up, and they took up from the surface of the water what they had previously lost. By this action the prophet pointed out that the sure word of God, which we had negligently lost by means of a tree, we should receive anew by the dispensation of a tree.”

Tertullian – Adv. Jud. 13 (ANF 3:170) – “Again, the mystery of this ‘tree’ we read as being celebrated even in the Books of the Reigns. For when the sons of the prophets were cutting ‘wood’ with axes on the bank of the Jordan River, the iron flew off and sank into the stream; and so, on Elisha the prophets’s coming up, the sons of the prophets beg of him to extract from the stream the iron which had sunk. And accordingly Elisha, having taken ‘wood,’ and having cast it into the place where the iron had been submerged, forthwith it rose and swam on the surface, and the ‘wood’ sank, which are the sons of the prophets recovered. Whence they understood that Elijah’s spirit was presently conferred upon him. What is more manifest that the mystery of this ‘wood,’ –the obduracy of this world had been sunk in the profundity of error, and is freed in baptism by the ‘wood’ of Christ, that is, of His passion; in order that what had formerly perished through the ‘tree’ in Adam, should be restored through the ‘tree’ in Christ?”

Didymus the Blind – Bible and Liturgy (109) – “By Elisha, the man of God, who asked: ‘Where did the axe fall in?’ is prefigured the God coming among men Who asked of Adam: ‘Where are you?’ By the iron fallen into the dark abyss is prefigured the power of the human nature, deprived of light. By the wood taken and thrown into the place where lay the object of the search is symbolized the glorious Cross. The Jordan is immortal Baptism. Indeed, it is in the Jordan that He Who made the Jordan deigned to be baptized for us. Finally, the iron which floated on the waters and came back to him who lost it, signifies that we mount by Baptism to a heavenly height and find again the grace of our old and true home country. If anyone argues that this passage is not prophecy of Baptism, what purpose, then, did the sacred writer have in writing down the passage?”

Gerhard –Explanation (239) – “As the children of the prophets wanted to fell some trees, the iron [head of the ax] fell into the water; thereupon, the iron floated to the top. The entire human race had fallen into deep, eternal damnation and was unable to rescue itself. Christ, the heavenly Elisha, came with the wood of His cross and lifted us up again.”

stephan huller

erase

Chili

Except that Jesus was crucified to set free the Christ, and this Jesus was the second Adam and also a figment of the imagination like the first one was.

He could have just gone 'poof' and be gone to set the man free in who's mind he was, and did in the mind of Christians wo so now are chasing him, is if they feel raped while in fact they have been raped from the opportunity to do the same.

Tommy

I heard that "dove" and "pigeon" cover many species with "dove" tending to refer to smaller birds (as with ponies). Had the Holy Ghost descended as a pigeon it might have had theological implications with pigeons free to roam like cows in India.