IamJoseph

Tidy is an understatement. One one is tidied, it is not acknowedged and gone to a new one.

Adam means 'of the earth'; its not a pronoun yet - none existed who could call out to him. In Hebrew, Adam = human. It became a name with the first dialogue, wherein it says, AND HE NAMED THE MAN ADAM AND THE WOMAN EVE'.


Here, 'deep' cannot mean a normal sleep - specially when we examine its context.

Adam was dual-gendered ['Man and woman created he them'], and the 'HE' aspect is here addressed.

If I don't know what it means, it at least does not mean what you see it as with your half complete quotes.

Correction. The text, not I, rules here. And the text says this refers to a non-physical realm.


You omitted pivotal verses - that is your error, not mine.

IamJoseph

Incorrect. The snake was a common symbol with many religions since ancient times. [Egypt, India, etc]. The Hebrew bible is thus using language of the people being addressed. This is also the case with the term EL, and the use of circumsizion [which predated Abraham], as a witnessing for a contract. This also proves, incidentally, the absolute contemporary and scientific veracity of the Hebrew writings!

That is not Maimonides, but aligns with a pre-dating doctrine:

'HE SPEAKS IN THE LANGUAGE OF THE PEOPLE'. The Hebrew bible was obviously written for all generations - its one of the oldest active writings in existence - thus far! Your response today proves it.

Thus that the universe had a BEGINNING = the uni is FINITE. All generations of mankind can understand this. It is also the correct usage of grammar and good writ.

DiamondH

I always thought Genesis portrays man as more powerful than god. God spent six days creating the world and man takes one look at it and screws the whole thing up.

Sheshbazzar

I directly asked you before, where does the text say, or imply that this refers to a non-physical realm?

From POST #280
You are asserting "the text says this refers to a non-physical realm", and I am asking you to provide us with -the text- that you are basing your assertion upon.
Be specific, give the verse numbers and the exact wording that occurs in your text, that leads you to hold this interpretation.
You said; "You even forgot to include the texts says the snake talked - BUT! - IN A REALM OUTSIDE OF THIS UNIVERSE!" [/QUOTE]
I cannot "include" texts that I cannot find within any of my Bibles, so I must ask that you tell me exactly where it is that you find this information that you say that I "forgot to include".
And again which ARE these "pivotal verses" that you say indicate the conversation between the serpent and the woman took place "IN A REALM OUTSIDE OF THIS UNIVERSE"?

Are "EASTward", "the whole land of ETHIOPIA", "toward the EAST of ASSYRIA", and the "River EUPHRATES", all actually "LOCATED IN A REALM OUTSIDE OF THIS UNIVERSE" ?


Inquiring minds would like to know what and where it is, that you are finding within the -text-? that you are drawing your, -this took place "OUTSIDE OF THIS UNIVERSE" conclusion from?

There are several more questions asked in POST # 280 that are still awaiting your answers.

Species8472

Why don't you share some of these "proven stats"?

Forgive us if we don't take your word for it, but you haven't come across as someone capable of interpreting and understand even the simplest of science on this forum.

Species8472

Ah, so you finally admit the obvious fact that genesis stole concepts from older religions. Well, we have been trying to tell you that for some time now. I thought your claim was that they were first?

It does prove that the stories were of a contemporary nature to the time OT was written yes, the writing of the OT, around the 7th century, clearly shows that the authors were ignorant of how things were when the mythical characters of the Torah and the conquest were supposed to be around. They wrote the stories in a, for them, contemporary context, and only modern archaeology has been capable of showing that the stories are not possible.

Errors are things like:
- Abraham had camels, but camels weren't held until about a 1000 years later.
- There was no migration from Mesopotamia. The Israelites are indigenous people to Canaan, and archaeological evidence indicates that they arose in that region around the 12th/13th century BC.
- Canaan was under Egyptian control when the exodus allegedly took place. Thus "escaping" to Canaan was rather pointless.
- The Egyptians, who kept detail records, and controlled the entire region, never reported any mass migration of Israelites.
- The walls of Jericho were not present at the time of the conquest, and at best the city was a mere village. Also most of the other cities mentioned were not there at the time, but they were when OT was written several hundred years later.
- The cities were destroyed later by Egyptians and Philistines and the Israelites, who were indigenous to Canaan rebuilt many of them for their own use.
- There is little evidence for David and none for Solomon. The great kingdom most likely never existed. Jerusalem was a village at the time and shows no archaeological evidence of any of the structures needed for it to be the capital of such an empire.


The northern kingdom of Israel adopted a polytheistic view (this is also mentioned in the bible) and Juda was monotheistic. When the northern kingdom was invaded, the refugees fled to Juda and Jerusalem. The city grew very rapidly in this period. The writing of the OT was very likely done to ensure coexistence between these two peoples. They had coexisted for a long time despite their difference in religion. The forging of the Jewish faith is most likely both a product of this period and the time spent in exile in Babylon. The common mythological basis written was very necessary to tie these two people together. Thus the reason for the creation and/or adaptation of these stories are quite apparent as they were a tool by the ruling and religious bodies of the time. Much like Christianity later was forged in the same way on myth and truth to become a tool for political and religious control. It is basically how and why religions are made.

dimbulb

Well, of course, you would.

So you have compared the "Hebrew writings" to all other writings have you? And you have found these writing "is" most credible. Even by "cencus"?

That's certainly revealing. Such precise and clearly stated arguments can't be easily brushed aside. But with a little effort I think I can manage it.

Bullshit.

semiopen

It is far from clear that the universe is finite. Consider investigations into parallel universes and the concept of metaverse.

The Chabad movement makes a big deal about the big bang being the origin of the universe. This is using the same concept that they condemn in science, changing accepted theory every day.

Not being a physicist, I don't think there is a reason to believe that there was not a cause of the singularity that caused the big bang. A universe (or metaverse) existing for an infinite amout of time is devastating to the concept of a God (no initial cause). A finite universe at least leaves the possibility of an intial cause open, which of course is still a long way from saying that a God did it, and a longer way from a God who wants you to put on Tefillin every day.

Chabad, (and I'm assuming you) have no problems taking short term positions on any side of an issue that will result in Jews performing mitzvahs. My impression is that they will even violate the commandment against False Witness.

Chag Sameach.

Sheshbazzar

From POST # 145
A couple of points to note, Our "expert" here on the credibility of Hebrew writings, admits that he cannot either -read- nor -speak- Hebrew.

His excuse being that he is "not from that country",
"Hebrew" is an alphabet and a language not a "country".

There are -millions- of people who can both -read- and -speak- in Hebrew, who have never set a foot in The Land of Israel (b' Eretz Yis'rael)
Love of The Torah is not tied to geography.

I could quote the text of Genesis 2 from The Torah here in Hebrew, as I have read it in Hebrew hundreds of times, have even copied out by hand at times.
I know what it says, and how the individual words are used throughout the rest of The Tanaka.
I have committed portions of The Torah, The Nevim, and The Ketuvim, to memory by daily recitations for years, and can from memory write them out down to the last yod and tittle, although I am not Jewish, and have never set a foot outside of the continental USA.
Love of knowledge, and a love of for the truth, are sufficient motivation for anyone who sincerely seeks to become knowledgeable in these matters.
It doesn't require a miracle, it requires only honesty, integrity, and diligence.

I could quote the Hebrew, in Hebrew,
But this is a futile endeavor to waste upon one who actually has no knowledge, love, nor care for, and cannot read, nor even sensibly discuss the contents of the actual Hebrew text.

If Joseph invested even a small portion of that time that he uses up in his grandstanding as a self-appointed expert on everything in these forums, he could and would actually become proficient in Hebrew, that he has not thus far done so speaks volumes, far more than all of the clap-trap that he has ever posted.