Ben C Smith

At least not as it stands. The so-called Mark-Q overlaps, for example, I prefer to see as Luke copying from Matthew. But I have been unable to shake off all the vestiges of some third-party document that influenced both Matthew and Luke.

Ben.

JoeWallack

Heaven On Their Minds


JW:
Only been here a little while and your Undertanding of "Mark" already exceeds that of the Christians here. Get down (under)! Don't underestimate the Power of The Verse.

Actually "Mark" has both Rebels against Jesus. "Lucy" has what you describe. Always had a soft spot for the Christian idea that it's never too late. Too bad it doesn't work in practice.

"Mark" needs both Rebels against Jesus for his Ironic Literary Theme which even "Mark's" Jesus, who had the Power to conquer Death, was no match for. The Jesus story is sandwiched between the Messenger stories. John, at the Beginning, who Everyone listens to and the guy at the end that no one even remembers the name of, who no one listens to. Pretty Ironic, huh?

In between, at the Beginning Jesus becomes so Popular that he goes to Lonely places. At the End he becomes so Unpopular that he goes to the most Public place. Now what's the word I Am looking for here? Just the Type of Story we would expect from an illetarate backholywater fisherman who only wants to give a straight forward witnessing of how he came to Faith in Jesus.

"Bartimaeus" is probably a reference to Plato's Timaeus. "Mark" even adds the Editorial comment "son of Timaeus" just in case anyone missed it because of the "Bar". From the recently departed Vorkosigan's most Excellent sight:

http://users2.ev1.net/%7Eturton/GMark/GMark10.html

"Historical Commentary

Timaeus is the name of a well-known dialog of Plato. In this dialog, Socrates -- who will be executed -- sits down with three of his friends, Critias, Timaeus, and Hermocrates. The dialog involves a discussion of why and how the universe was created:

"When the father creator saw the creature which he had made moving and living, the created image of the eternal gods, he rejoiced..."(Jowett translation)

Plato's Timaeus also contains a long discussion about the eye and vision:

"And of the organs they first contrived the eyes to give light, and the principle according to which they were inserted was as follows: So much of fire as would not burn, but gave a gentle light, they formed into a substance akin to the light of every-day life; and the pure fire which is within us and related thereto they made to flow through the eyes in a stream smooth and dense, compressing the whole eye, and especially the centre part, so that it kept out everything of a coarser nature, and allowed to pass only this pure element. When the light of day surrounds the stream of vision, then like falls upon like, and they coalesce, and one body is formed by natural affinity in the line of vision, wherever the light that falls from within meets with an external object. And the whole stream of vision, being similarly affected in virtue of similarity, diffuses the motions of what it touches or what touches it over the whole body, until they reach the soul, causing that perception which we call sight. But when night comes on and the external and kindred fire departs, then the stream of vision is cut off; for going forth to an unlike element it is changed and extinguished, being no longer of one nature with the surrounding atmosphere which is now deprived of fire: and so the eye no longer sees, and we feel disposed to sleep." (Jowett translation)

It is not difficult to see the parallel between Jesus -- about to be executed -- and Socrates, as well as Peter, James, and John, and Socrates' three friends. Socrates, like Jesus, is a tekton. Bar-Timaeus is blind, and Timaeus has a discussion of optics and the physics of the eye. Like Jesus, Socrates will enlighten his companions as to the truth. The parallel may be pushed further, but that would take us outside our task here. The name stinks of literary invention, and this would make it the only pericope in Mark with an origin in Plato or other Hellenistic literature. All in all, considering the odd structure (see below), this pericope is probably not from the hand of the original writer of Mark.

Bar-Timaeus also recalls the blind seer Tiresias, the famous Greek prophet, who sees truth though blind, just as Bar-Timaeus knows the truth that the King, the Son of David, is passing by, though he is blind. Although the text implies that Bartimaeus becomes a follower of Jesus, he disappears from the story after this incident.

Most exegetes relate this to the previous pericope, relating the blindness of Bar-Timaeus to the blindness of the disciples. Note how Jesus greets the beggar with the same words he met the disciples' request in Mk 10:36: "What do you want me to do for you?" But disciples' lack of understand is met with scorn, while the faith of the beggar, the fertile ground of Tolbert's analysis, is met with healing and a will to followership."


JW:
Of particular interest is:

"Note how Jesus greets the beggar with the same words he met the disciples' request in Mk 10:36: "What do you want me to do for you?"

"τί θέλετέ με ποιήσω ὑμῖν"

Verses

"τί σοι θέλεις ποιήσω"

This is a standard Literary device of "Mark" to make clear that a Contrast is intended.

Comparing "Mark" to "Luke" here as I've explained having the two Rebels against Jesus is Consistent with "Mark's" overall Ironic theme but when "Luke" splits the Rebels the Veil of the Fictive covering tears a little. This is the very best Type of evidence for Markan priority as when we can identify a Motive, in this case Ironic Literary construction, we have Consistency as to Editing.



Joseph

HISTORIAN, n.
A broad-gauge gossip.

http://www.errancywiki.com/index.php