Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Chili · 09-04-2004, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilVaz

I've discussed this in other threads on the Catholic Answers boards.

An argument can be made that Adam and Eve never lived except in the narrative of the myth that points at our own imagination.

Man was created and formed in Gen. 1 and 2 and Adam and Eve are just imaginary beings that exist only in the imagination of the being called man.

If this is true they have no corporeal body of existence and are just the effective agents that allow us to procreate God in our image to make this the exact process that others call evolution.

everettf · 09-05-2004, 05:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jagan

That verse, coupled with my Catholic school education, leads me to think the Catholic Church currently regards Adam and Eve as symbols of early/first humanity, not to be taken literally. Nor would the inference that their nearly-immediate descendants were artisans of bronze, or musicians, be taken literally.

This outlook, in my opinion, throws much of the Biblical historicity into doubt, though, because (a) they aren't presented as any more mythical than others, (b) supposedly real people traced back their ancestry to Adam (notably Jesus). Even though Luke and others obviously regarded Adam as a real person, the Church doesn't, despite the inspiration doctrine. Enigmatically, they don't consider anything else in the Bible ahistorical; for example the Exodus or, I think, the Flood, despite similar implausibility and lack of evidence.

Based on Biblical timelines, it is generally agreed that Adam and Eve would have lived about 4000-4200 (others say ~6000, some ~10,000, but I'm unfamiliar with how they get these numbers) years before Christ, if historical. Seventy thousand years ago simply cannot be justified by a non-metaphorical reading.

Edit: Interesting. Looking at the Lukan geneaology of Jesus on there, they appear to have made somebody up to put as the son of Heli, and father of Mary. Of course, the insertion of Mary at all is unwarranted, but that's at least to be expected.

Edit 2: Almost forgot. As we all know, the KJV has been an influential translation, and it has a peculiar rendering of Genesis 1:28:
This single word has led some to speculate that, indeed, there were other humans prior to Adam and Eve. Then again, almost all other translations simply say "fill".

I've been sitting here and reading and a question comes to mind. Who was taking notes at that time. Has anybody been able to figure out what language the were speaking???
:banghead:

Peter Kirby · 09-05-2004, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by everettf

Has anybody been able to figure out what language they were speaking???

According to the Book of Jubilees (2nd century BCE), everyone spoke perfect Hebrew before the tower of Babel.

best,
Peter Kirby

spin · 09-05-2004, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Kirby

According to the Book of Jubilees (2nd century BCE), everyone spoke perfect Hebrew before the tower of Babel.

That makes one wonder when Hebrew emerged from its Canaanite background, as its closest linguistic relatives are Ammonite, Moabite, Edomite and further afield Phoenician. It must have been after Phoenician separated from eastern Canaanite. That makes the tower of Babel perdy late, doesn't it!

spin

everettf · 09-05-2004, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Kirby

According to the Book of Jubilees (2nd century BCE), everyone spoke perfect Hebrew before the tower of Babel.

best,
Peter Kirby

You didn't answer the part of who was taking notes.

Think about it
:banghead:

spin · 09-05-2004, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by everettf

You didn't answer the part of who was taking notes.

Think about it
:banghead:

Don't be so pre-mature. Think about the indication that Jubilees was written in the 2nd century BCE, when you read Peter's note, and then start headbanging.

The Hebrew language probably didn't exist before about 1200 BCE, perhaps even later. You might care to ask, who translated it all into Hebrew.

spin

everettf · 09-05-2004, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spin

Don't be so pre-mature. Think about the indication that Jubilees was written in the 2nd century BCE, when you read Peter's note, and then start headbanging.

The Hebrew language probably didn't exist before about 1200 BCE, perhaps even later. You might care to ask, who translated it all into Hebrew.

spin

That is not what i wanted to know. who was watching all this creation taking place. Did this god have a scribe?

This may sound childish but inquiring minds want to know.

I read that the theist believe this god of theirs created all this. Who was taking notes?

Peter Kirby · 09-05-2004, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by everettf

You didn't answer the part of who was taking notes. Think about it

Yahweh strolled through the garden on occasion; Adam probably had a good chat and played a mean game of gin rummy on occasion. Adam lived for 930 years. I'm sure he could have traveled the world a bit and set down an account. Noah lived for 950 years, 600 of which were prior to the Flood, so it would be no problem for him to transmit it. Maybe Methuselah just handed it off from Adam to Noah. Noah lived to see Abram reach age 50. Presto, the Jews have it in the original Hebrew.

best,
Peter Kirby

everettf · 09-05-2004, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Kirby

Adam lived for 930 years. I'm sure he could have traveled the world a bit and set down an account. Noah lived for 950 years, 600 of which were prior to the Flood, so it would be no problem for him to transmit it. Maybe Methuselah just handed it off from Adam to Noah. Noah lived to see Abram reach age 50. Presto, the Jews have it in the original Hebrew.

best,
Peter Kirby

Then this god made adam and told him to write it all down?

Did this god then show Adam all the galaxies and nebulas that he created?
and What a bout the firmament?

Peter Kirby · 09-05-2004, 08:56 AM

Ya, that's the ticket.

best,
Peter Kirby

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09-05-2004, 08:56 AM	#30
Peter Kirby Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: the reliquary of Ockham's razor Posts: 4,035	Ya, that's the ticket. best, Peter Kirby

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