Johnny Skeptic

Ok, so why do you believe that the Bible is inerrant? Has God ever stated that he intended to provide believe with inerrant texts?

Johnny Skeptic

A moral God would give everyone an equal opportunity to become saved. No man can fairly be sent to hell for refusing to accept information that he would accept if he was aware of it. God withholds information that some people would accept if they were aware of it.

seven8s

I disagree, given what is known about the frailty of humanity. And as such, a moral God would 'save' everybody, period.

It is interesting to consider, 'ignorance of the law is no excuse', and wonder where that came from. Can I violate a law without knowing that the law exists? And if I do, what should happen?

Does God withhold information, or is the information so large, so extensive that the information is not able to be contained in a single mind, religion, culture, philosophy, government, etc.?

Is there anyone here who can discern in their entirety the tax laws of one country, let alone the USA? Are laws in the making as we expand in knowledge?

Gundulf

A God subject to your view of morality might act the way you think a moral being would act - I will give you that.

Do you believe that morality is an actual, universal law that, if there were a God, he would be subject to as well?

If you believe, as most atheists seem to, that morality is a biological instinct that developed from the social interaction of our evolutionary ancestors, and hence is specifically limited to human interaction.... I fear I don't see how one can judge the ideas of a universal God according to human morality?

Doug Shaver

It didn't come from God. It came from human beings dealing with questions of how laws of human origin could be justly administered and executed by fallible human beings. The principle presumes certain limitations on human lawmakers that are of no relevance to a consideration of what we may expect from God.

Certainly.
It depends. Ignorantia juris non excusat is not the only jurisprudential principle that might apply to a particular situation.

Johnny Skeptic

Who knows? Many people believe that morality transcends all beings. If it doesn't, and morality was invented by some God, is it your position that his morality is automatically fair and just for no reason other than his sayso?

Since I am an agnostic, I do not preclude a reasonable possibility that the universe was created by an intelligent being. However, it is my position that based upon the Bible, and the non-Biblical evidence is available, there is not sufficient evidence that a possible creator is the God of the Bible. Following are some of my reaons:

God says that killing people is wrong, but he frequently kills people.

God tells Christians via James that if a man refuses to give food to hungry people, he is vain, and his faith is dead, but God has refused to give food to millions of people who have died of starvation.

God makes people blind, deaf, and dumb, reference Exodus 4:11.

God punishes people for sins that their ancestors committed, reference Exodus 20:5.

God withholds information that many people would accept if they were aware of it, with no apparent benefits for himself or for anyone else.

God refuses to protect women from rapists, with not apparent benefits for himself of for anyone else.

Even Attila the Hun did not kill people who loved him along with his enemies like God does. This is good evidence that if a God exists, at best he is mentally incompetent.

No God should expect that he can frequently act completely contrary to what he tells people to do and convince decent, rational people to love him.

There is simply not sufficient evidence that the Bible is trustworthy. For instance, consider the following important claims:

1 - The God of the Bible created the universe.

2 - Adam and Eve were real people.

3 - God is perfect, meaning that God never does anything that is immoral.

4 - There was a global flood.

5 - There were ten plagues in Egypt.

6 - Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit.

7 - Jesus was born of a virgin.

8 - Jesus never committed a sin.

9 - Jesus performed miracles.

10 - Jesus' shed blood and death remmitted the sins of mankind.

How do you propose that people try to verify those claims?

Regarding item 9, today, millions of Christians disagree as to what constitutes a miracle healing. Why do you believe that it was any different back then, or any easier to verify?

Please note that I did not mention the Resurrection. I didn't because I didn't need to. That is because rising from the dead has only to do with power, not character. If Elvis Presley rose from the dead, you certainly would not worship him.

How certain are you that the Gospels accurately state what Jesus said?

How certain are you that Jesus performed miracles?

It is my position that there is not sufficient evidence that everything that God does in necessary towards the achievement of worthy and just goals?

Will you please tell us what you believe God is trying to accomplish?

Johnny Skeptic

Ok, so why do you believe that the Bible is inerrant? Has God ever stated that he intended to provide believers with inerrant texts?

Johnny Skeptic

Actually, I am not aware of any evidence that God has ever personally told one single person about the Gospel message. Are you? It is reasonable to conclude that the Gospel message was spread entirely by human effort according to the prevailing inefficient means of communication, transportation, printing and translation of a given time period.

Johnny Skeptic

Ok, so why do you believe that the Bible is inerrant? Has God ever stated that he intended to provide believers with inerrant texts?

Actually, I am not aware of any evidence that God has ever personally told one single person about the Gospel message. Are you? It is reasonable to conclude that the Gospel message was spread entirely by human effort according to the prevailing inefficient means of communication, transportation, printing and translation of a given time period.

Kosmin and Lachman wrote a book that is titled "One Nation Under God." Billy Graham endorses the book, but I do not have any idea why. The authors provide lots of documented research that shows that in the U.S., the primary factors that influence religious beliefs are geography, family, race, ethnicity, gender, and age. Those factors are entirely secular, and do not indicate that God has anything to do with the spread of Christianity in the U.S.