Atheos

Salieri,

I'm going to ask again. Do you have any evidence that Mohammad isn't telling the truth? Do you have any evidence to prove that Santa Claus doesn't exist? Do you have any evidence to prove that Zeus doesn't exist?

Your blind refusal to answer even the simplest rebuttal is maddening. There is just as much evidence to prove the existence of Zeus, Santa Claus and Odin as there is to prove that Jesus was the son of God. There is just as much proof that Mohammad was an anointed prophet of God as there is that Jesus was. Heck, there's just as much proof that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God for that matter. Do you mock his followers?

-Atheos

Salieri

So then why do you not take Jesus's words seriously even when you have no evidence that he's lying? And if you don't care enough about your own soul, then why do you tell your children that Jesus's words are fantasies & lies when you have no proof that he is lying? Are you that confident that you know better than Christ does about heaven & hell? if so, then by all means pass your wisdom along to your children. But you are also responsible for how you affect their lives in doing so. That arrogance will cost you & your children your lives. But who cares? All that matter is that they believe you know better than Christ. How is that not true? But I can assure you that; "He who exalts himself will be humbled." That is a fact, my friend. It's too bad you're children will also be affected.

Seraph

I find it extremely funny how you want all this proof but present nothing but your opinion. I will present proof when you present proof to support your belief.

Since I am not a Christian I am not bound by Christian rules.
How can someone who's very esxistance is in question be found guilty of anything?
Who are you to say he did exist when you weren't even there?
What has been proven false?
The world flood.
The flat earth.
The love of money being the root of all evil.

What does Buddha have to do with it? Since there are records of Buddha outside his religios texts... funny how Jesus doesn't have that.


Appeal to ignorance
Inconsistency
Non sequitur

graymouser

Sal:

I have to say, your concept of the benefit of the doubt is extremely skewed and hypocritical. You demand evidence that the words attributed in the Gospels to Jesus are false, and refuse to accept the argument - made to you a thousand times by now - that the Gospels are not reliable accounts of the life of Jesus, because of their obvious doctrinal bias and their thorough internal and external contradictions and their extraordinary claims without extraordinary evidence. You refuse to review it like you might The Life of Apollonius of Tyana, or to tell me any single reason why you believe the Gospels but not The Life of Apollonius.

Yet, when I and others claim we once were fervent Christian true believers and subsequently deconverted, you call us liars without a second thought. You do not hold up your vaunted evidence standards for even a minute, because you'd rather stick with your precious doctrine.

You have clearly shown that you have no interest in the truth.

-Wayne

PoodleLovinPessimist

I am.

I did.

I am indeed.

I'm still alive. So are my children.

They made up their own minds about religion.

Still waiting.

Lets add the definition of fact to the ever growing list of things you completely fail to understand.

And I'm not your friend.

Yes, it's too bad they are free of metaphysical guilt and fear, free to learn, free to escape the quagmire of ignorance and primitive superstition. Too bad indeed.

Agnostic Theist

Where's the answer to my post?! :boohoo:

I got an answer supporting mine before I got one from Sal!

Oh cruel fate! Wherefore dost thou torment me so?

You've seen my words, I'm not lying (and I can't be lying on that last line) so fate must exist. No matter what you do, think, say or believe your fate is set, so if you're going to hell no amount of salvation can save you.

GermanHeretic

And when did you stop thinking?

Ovazor

Neither do I have proof that they did not come from bald guy named Gaius Lallus. Should I hold these two hypotheses equally valid?

And there is very considerable evidence for the period when the gospel was written, and that evidence does not support idea that they were eye-witness testimony.

No, it's not. It is applying the same standards as with other persona. To believe anybody who claims to be a god just on his own words is not wise nor judging him without proof. Such claims need evidence to support them.


Biblical errors are well-documented. But fanatics like you just shut their eyes even tighter and stick their fingers even deeper in their ears and comfort themself "there is no proof." Considering that the majority of theists in the world don't need cling to idea that the sacred writing is a literal (rather than metaphorical) truth, I'd say that the faith of the literalist is strangely weak and fragile.

I don't believe this. I've seen what you consider logic in your postings, and I don't believe that a religious conversion makes people forget basic critical thinking. Ergo, I think that it is more likely that you never had these skills. Note that I'm not saying that a theists could not be a critical thinker. Some are and they can argue their point with very profound and subtle logic. But if you do possess such skills, you have yet to demonstrate them.


You haven't demonstrated the slightest objectivity, nor lack of pride. In fact, pride in yourself is what most your posts are all about. Salieri was an atheist, so she knows every atheist argument and what all the atheists think. Salieri travelled to Israel and saw herself, so all the historians and archaeologists must be wrong since they don't say what Salieri thinks. Salieri believes that there's a god who loves her, and fulfilling that emotional need is not selfish, unlike people who love each other. Your preaching is nor really about god. It is about YOU.

So, in addition to "logic" and "contradiction" you redefine "subjectivity" as well. And your KNOWING that god loves you is called objective.

And back to argument from narcism: Salieri understand, her opponents do not. If the point being argued is whether bible actually is god's words, you cannot begin by assuming that they are. That's the barest beginnings in the logic class you seem to be so fond of.

I'm still not your friend.

newtype_alpha

For the same reason you don't take the Prophet Muhammed's words seriously since you, too, have no evidence that he's lying.
You proceed from a false assumption. I believe Jesus was basically an okay guy, just a little misguided and too full of himself--which in the end got him killed. I teach my children that Jesus is an example of why a goodness is not synonymous with prudence. :thumbs:

Yes
Believe me, I intend to :thumbs:
Will it really cost me and my children their lives? When last I checked, Christians do not (yet) kill non-believers for being non-believers. I am also accutely aware that that "damnation," as described in the Bible, is actually nothing more than "the outer darkness" beyond God's kingdom. Given that I consider your god to be a malevolent sociopath who would sooner rape my children than "save" them, this is actually quite appealing.
Indeed, "he who exalts himself will be humbled." There are two characters in the Bible who exalt themselves more than any other: Jesus and Jehovah. If it is true that "he who exalts himself will be humbled," then by Jesus' own admission, both he and his father will soon (if they haven't already) be recieving a massive divine ass-whupping by a series of other, more powerful gods.

Jesus, afte rall, was nailed to a cross for exalting himself and claiming to be something he had no businessness claiming. The only thing I claim to be is a believer in gods other than Jesus. Jesus has never spoken to me, never shown me anything, never revealed anything to me, and the things I have seen in my life lead me to believe he was either lying or mistaken, or that the things he is credited as saying were never actually said by him. Either way, it doesn't matter to me because Jesus offers nothing I want.

Seraph

WHAT?!!
Gandalf and Frodo don't really exist?!?!?