ApostateAbe

I think it would be equivalent to the belief that there was a hologram walking around looking and seeming like a human being. It actually seems to be more of an argument against the idea that Jesus started as a myth.

Transient

Nah because as I said it was all in a different realm mate - not on earth - big difference.

ApostateAbe

If the Marcionite Jesus still existed in the realm of being observed the same as a human being, that doesn't seem relevant to the point that he might have been a myth. I think it is important to consider that the doctrine was devised to solve a very specific problem--not the problem of doubts about Jesus' existence, but the problem of Jesus existing as both God and a man. It is a problem today, and it was a larger problem for a society that thought of gods and men as existing in mutually exclusive realms. The Marcionite Jesus was purely God, no part man.

Transient

So you mean that the incorporeal realm is not somewhere else but here on earth?
I suppose one could say that the heavenly realm is here tooo but it would all be meaningless really.
I guess it's possible but it's all crap anyway - there never was anyone remotely like the bible's "Jesus" that's rather obvious.
Maybe there was some John Doe that they based it on but it is not that likely either.

ApostateAbe

My view of Jesus sort of fits into the way I think religions are born and evolve. The old religions (Islam and Hinduism) started from tribal mythologies. The newer religions always start as cults (one strong person leading an extremist group), and they evolve into something broader, more elaborate, more diverse, and more adaptive, with the leading figure becoming progressively more powerful and perfect. You see that with Zoroastrianism, Buddhism, Islam, Mormonism, Rastafarianism, Scientology, and so on. The Jesus-myth theory would require a break in the pattern. When it is proposed that the burden of evidence rests on everyone else to prove for sure that Jesus existed, or when weak evidence is promoted as strong evidence, it sort of makes the Jesus-mythers look zealous and irrational. I find the subject interesting, and my front to religious adherents is that I am a critical thinker whose theories align best with everything that is observed.

aa5874

Do you know what is an ILLUSION?

It is an illusion to think that Marcion's Jesus was not imaginary.

aa5874

Absolute absurdity. Marcion's Jesus started as a myth.

Marcion's Jesus came directly from heaven as a phantom having no earthly parents, brothers or sister, cousins, aunts or uncles.

Marcion's Jesus was not of the seed of David, Abraham, Moses or Adam.

Marcion's imaginary Jesus came to earth as the son of a God and virtually destroys the argument for a need for Jesus to have existed as human to be worshipped as a God and have the power to forgive sins.

Transient

I don't see where you get the impression that Marcion thought that a person called "Jesus" walked the earth recently whether holograph or not.
Sounds more like he considered that this "Jesus" was in another realm not earth.
Just what do you think that Marcion says about this holographic "Jesus" in terms of his interactions with humans on earth?

aa5874

Your argument is bogus.

The supposed founder of Islam is not worshipped as a God with the power to forgive sins after he died.

The supposed founder of Mormonism was not worssipped as a God with the power to forgive sins after he was killed.

Buddhism does not involve worshipping the founder as a God with the power to forgive sins.

ApostateAbe

There is a "gospel of Marcion" that is a very close derivative of the gospel of Luke, with essentially the same Jesus as the gospel of Luke. The biggest difference between Marcionism and mainline Christianity was that the Marcionites believed that the new Christian God was a different and better God than the Old Testament God, who was thought to be evil and capricious. I am not sure where the evidence comes from about the Marcionite Jesus being a holograph, but it is analogous to the early gnostic belief (docetism).