premjan

Ma'am,

I do not hear my parents say nowadays that they are proud of me (in little ways I have given them reason for this). So thank you for that sentiment. Yes I have some self-hatred. Perhaps it arises from having a somewhat innocuous and appeasing nature, but being around people of stronger personality. When you get pushed around and you still can't get yourself to exert your own personality perhaps a little self-hate naturally creeps in. In my case I am more like my mother, whereas my father and my sister are both pretty strong-willed individuals. In some ways they walked over me when I was little not in material ways but just in terms of self confidence perhaps. And the pattern kept being repeated in later life. People mistreat or dominate others emotionally without even realizing it. In today's domination-centric environment, there is noone to blame but your own genetic makeup or upbringing. Then again we are not all born to be the stars of the arena. We have to live with what we cannot change.

I do hope that my daughter becomes more self-willed than I am but I am betting she will be so only in spite of me.

Sincerely,
Prem

seven8s

I particularly agree with “religion instead of reason�?, the first trying to control other. I also think that the reason “the mythical search for purity is a problem�? is because we don’t know where to search. The very first thing religion does to strip mankind of their purity, is to sow enmity between man and woman. And to make sure they control men and women, religions then attack children. The concept of original sin, reincarnation, bad karma, reap what you sowed, etc. is rift amongst religions. It’s revolting. Children aren’t born pure according to the various religions, they are born sinners, how destructive.

Infants are pure, and we were all born as infants, hence, pure. Purity exists within us we just need to remember. Perhaps that’s why mankind proliferates so abundantly. It’s an inner self driven need to remember. I one time heard a man speak at a conference concerning violence against children; he stated, “Every time a child is born it is another chance for society to get it right�?. The violence against children began in religion, it continues in governments, and most sadly of all is past down from generation to generation from the very parents that were innately trying to achieve purity in the first place, but were taught they didn’t know how.

I agree with your post.................there is nothing more needed to achieve purity then through intention. Practice recognizing the purity in you, in others, and purity through remembrance re-surfaces. Yes, it lies all around us. :wave:

hinduwoman

gunnaheave, if women are not allowed to participate then would you say their power is lessened?
That is what happens in Tamil communites --- a woman during menstruation is thought to be so powerful that she must be kept away from normal life and holy rites, so that acknowledgement of her power becomes another way of disempowering her.
On the other hand in tantra, women’s sexual energy are celebrated and they are allowed to particpate in leading roles.


seven8, in Islam it is not explicitly stated that children are born sinners; instead the theological stand is they are born muslims.
In Hinduism though karma follows the new-born infant, he/she is not born a sinner as such. Unitl he/she is five years old he/she is held to be innocent of whatever he/she does. Also Hinduism does not have the concept of a Fall so the theory of orignal sin does not apply.

KrishnadasaAnudasa

at this time

seven8s

Well go ahead an heave because if that made you heave this really ought to make you heave................I will acknowledge that women in 3rd world countries are presented with immeasurable difficulties, and yes, perhaps I spoke quickly from the consciousness of my culture. However, having said that, it particularly ticks me off to see women of 3rd world countries ready willing and able to behead (slaughter), stone, boil, rape, their countries women. It particularly ticks me off to see fanatic women of Muslin countries toting machine guns ready willing and able to slay the children of another women, Jew or not. Women are not as innocent as women would present themselves. Women participate in violence against women by allowing it against their own gender for whatever political, religious, or power struggle at their disposal. They don't have my sympathy.

When women do not acknowledge that they are as much the problem as men in their debasement, they raise son’s who are confused, angry, and filled with self hate. They raise daughters who are confused, angry, and filled with self hate.

Obviously you do not understand the complexity of violence against women. Notice what you write;

That is the most ignorant statement I have ever read concerning violence against women: How can acknowledging a “ so powerful�? aspect of women dis-empower them? Unless it was a lie. If a woman teaches herself that her sexual power is the power, she has a fool for a student. Her life’s experience concerning that lie is her instructor. No matter if she lives in a 3rd world country or a prosperous educated country she learns about life by experience, she is without excuse for her ignorance. Life is no respecter of persons, meaning no one is "special", above another. But boy don't we crave specialness. Even babies learn from experience. The minute we stop blaming every body else for our problem we solve our problem, male or female.


Please.......................so tell me Hinduwomen, what do women think with, sexual energy? How degrading. Women are in power in any country for the same reason women are
in power in any other country: She’s intelligent and connected. Same goes for men. Women, like men, are smart as a fox.

Celebrated? How manipulative, how passive aggressive, by either sex. If sex is so powerful why is there such destruction in the world, why such poverty in cultures that advance that lie? Oh, looks like I just answered my own question. It does sell books though, I’ll certainly acknowledge that much. And I am just as certain that those guru's, yogi's or what ever they are called are making just as much. The only energy that sex creates is babies and new brain cells. The brain cells promptly die in the olfactory bulb, and religion promptly kills the babies. Ever wonder why? Notice a link?

Sexual union is a celebration of mutual love, respect and honor between a man and a woman. It confers no power, but rather affirms a true power; love, respect, honor. Anything else is degrading.

Is it implied (however subtle)? Is it consider a sin to be anything else? Are these Muslim children, upon maturation (adulthood) allowed the freedom of choice concerning their beliefs? Are tactics of fear, and/or ignorance, inbred in a child for the sole purpose of the continuation of religious and parental domination? The answers to these question leads me to believe that their very religion practices, and/or parental practices are violence against children (not to mention and women and men). But then again they are free to raise their children any way they want. Their life’s experience is their instructor. That was my point, end of story.

Foolish. A 5 year old learns in no lesser manner then a two year old, a 5 month old, or a 55 year old; by experience.

Karma is perhaps the most violent concept ever perpetrated by mankind against mankind. Christianity adopted it, dressed it in a new pair of pants and called it original sin, whats the difference? Is one any less violent then the other? I think not.


Never said it did. Hinduism has the concept of Karma, I see no difference.

Violence against women is a complicated, multi-cultural, multi-faceted problem that is at the root of mankind’s condition. Teaching women they are victims is an insidious passive aggressive behavior in and of itself. Don’t educate them, don’t teach them true self empowerment (brain), don’t teach them personal responsibility......................just don’t teach them to think, period. Teach them they are victims and let them nurse their wounds with self pity, which becomes anger, which becomes vengeance, and continues the cycle of self betrayal.............................yeah, that’ll save the world.

And if we really want to continue their cycle of self betrayal, teach them some hocus-pocus BS about their sexuality, that’ll really keep them down.

As to your very first question: When women refuse to take responsibility for their own destiny, and participate in refusing another women her right to take responsibility, for what ever reason, woman’s power is lessened by her own choice.

What you see is what you get. I refuse to see women as powerless, and if that angers another woman, or a host of women, I frankly don’t care. I refuse to perpetrate the problem. To look in the mirror and say to oneself, “I have seen the enemy, it is myself�?, applies equally to men and women.

Oh, and while we're at it, lets not teach men to think either, wouldn't want them getting ahead of us now would we.

I teach my children to never take 50% ( or more or less) of the blame in any problem, instead take 100% responsibility, to do less is to perpetrate the problem. At 50-50 we're in a dead heat, dead being a key word.

edited by seven8s - typo

seven8s

Well, lets see if I can dis-spell the implication of ignorance this statement implies.

Really? So, women are toxic? And how about men? Why don’t they menstruate? Are men toxic? Is one, male, being favored over another, female because he doesn’t have toxins, hence no menstruation? Or is visa versa, women are favored over men, because they both have toxins but she has menstruation?

It is a hormonal change, end of story! No mystery about it, now maybe we can all put our ignorance aside, stop asking foolish question, and perpetuating offensive myths.

Men donate sperm, women donate an egg; together they create life, and it’s opposite is true as well; together they have the potential to destroy it.

If I said men sweat like a pig to release toxins would that offend you, because it should. Women sweat, men sweat, they release toxins. Men breath, women breath, they release toxins. Men cry, women cry, they release toxins. Men project psychologically, women project psychologically, they release toxins. Men laugh, women laugh, they release endophrins, which releases toxins, end of story.

seven8s

I am deeply touched by the poignancy of life your post expresses. Self hatred is the beast that slays mankind. Self love is the glory that rises mankind. I don’t think it would be an exaggeration to say that everyone experiences self hatred at some time or another. What separates those who are slain and those who will rise is acceptance that they have, or are, experiencing self hate, then turning that around.

I sense a bright, articulate, kind young man at the center of your being. Perhaps what hurts you is that you don’t sense this same young man. Kind, being the operative word of this thought, is often confused with passive. They are not the same. Strong willed people, and passive people confuse kindness with passiveness. They (strong willed/passive) are in reality the equal opposite of each other, hence the term passive/aggressive. They are both filled with self hate.

Your daughter will not be more self willed in spite you, it can occur because of you. Having said that, the opposite is true as well; she can become more self loved because of you. Each one teach one is a motto we live by whether we realize it or not.

Yes, it will. Choose friends wisely, and spend time with domineering family members sparingly. I chuckle at my granddaughter (12 years old); she is immeasurably kind, with what appears a laid back, passive personality. Watch out though because she’ll fool you; she is smart. When pressured by the strong willed she holds her arm straight out, palm facing the opposition and says’, “talk to the hand, because the ears aren’t listening, bye�?. It’s as simply as that.

My granddaughter has been nurtured into self love. She has also been taught that if no one nurtures you (upbringing), nature (genetic make up) provides an answer, an alternative, nurture yourself.

Today’s young men astound me; they are more nurturing then any generation of men before them. That’s a good thing, become one of them. The day of the dinosaur is over, it’s fast becoming a new world, join it.

We live with what we can change, by changing where we choose to live. That place of change occurs in our mind, not our environment. The envirnonment follows the mind. The mere fact that you have had the courage to confront these issues makes you a star. How you confront these issues makes you a winner or loser.

What you think is what you say. What you say is what you do. What you do becomes your destiny.

Again, Namaste,

Susan

KrishnadasaAnudasa

ignorance of the soul. is nt created nor destroyed. You have the power to do neither

seven8s

Well now lets see, the ignorance I was dis-spelling was the myth your post presents concerning menstruation.

And the soul is pure, not ignorant, and yes, I can create a soul..................did so 5 times. Now another gift I have is to renew consciousness, but then again I can equally destroy it, so it seems to me that both are within my power. It’s a matter of choice. Perhaps that’s what upsets you. Is it that you not only want your power, you want mine as well? Sorry, I’m not ignorant, you can’t have it, but you are free to give yours away if you want to.

RevDahlia

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Don't y'all think that the superstitions about menstruation might date back to the time before Tampax Pearl, when reproduction was still a total mystery and women bled harmlessly for days on end and men, who were used to associating blood with sometimes-fatal injury, got kinda freaked-out by it? And that those superstitions took hold, along with more standard forms of gender politic/misogyny, and hung around for awhile? Gawd knows there are still plenty of men who are terrified by the whole process.

My 0.02.

</offtopic>