Amaleq13

meforevidence,

I have split off your post since it is makes no attempt to address the OP and is actually an OP of its own. You can find the your thread here.

Amaleq13

Thanks but the original reference suggested it was a pagan comparison being discussed but this seems to be Justin making the comparison on his own. In addition, he seems to be assuming that at least some of the figures mentioned (certainly Aesculapius the physician) really had existed on earth. His argument seems to be "Hell, what we're preaching is no crazier than anything you already believe!"

From Mr. Kirby's website:

CHAPTER XXI -- ANALOGIES TO THE HISTORY OF CHRIST.

And when we say also that the Word, who is the first-birth of God, was produced without sexual union, and that He, Jesus Christ, our Teacher, was crucified and died, and rose again, and ascended into heaven, we propound nothing different from what you believe regarding those whom you esteem sons of Jupiter. For you know how many sons your esteemed writers ascribed to Jupiter: Mercury, the interpreting word and teacher of all; AEsculapius, who, though he was a great physician, was struck by a thunderbolt, and so ascended to heaven; and Bacchus too, after he had been torn limb from limb; and Hercules, when he had committed himself to the flames to escape his toils; and the sons of Leda, and Dioscuri; and Perseus, son of Danae; and Bellerophon, who, though sprung from mortals, rose to heaven on the horse Pegasus. For what shall I say of Ariadne, and those who, like her, have been declared to be set among the stars? And what of the emperors who die among yourselves, whom you deem worthy of deification, and in whose behalf you produce some one who swears he has seen the burning Caesar rise to heaven from the funeral pyre? And what kind of deeds are recorded of each of these reputed sons of Jupiter, it is needless to tell to those who already know. This only shall be said, that they are written for the advantage and encouragement of youthful scholars; for all reckon it an honourable thing to imitate the gods. But far be such a thought concerning the gods from every well-conditioned soul, as to believe that Jupiter himself, the governor and creator of all things, was both a parricide and the son of a parricide, and that being overcome by the love of base and shameful pleasures, he came in to Ganymede and those many women whom he had violated and that his sons did like actions. But, as we said above, wicked devils perpetrated these things. And we have learned that those only are deified who have lived near to God in holiness and virtue; and we believe that those who live wickedly and do not repent are punished in everlasting fire.

CHAPTER XXII -- ANALOGIES TO THE SONSHIP OF CHRIST.

Moreover, the Son of God called Jesus, even if only a man by ordinary generation, yet, on account of His wisdom, is worthy to be called the Son of God; for all writers call God the Father of men and gods. And if we assert that the Word of God was born of God in a peculiar manner, different from ordinary generation, let this, as said above, be no extraordinary thing to you, who say that Mercury is the angelic word of God. But if any one objects that He was crucified, in this also He is on a par with those reputed sons of Jupiter of yours, who suffered as we have now enumerated. For their sufferings at death are recorded to have been not all alike, but diverse; so that not even by the peculiarity of His sufferings does He seem to be inferior to them; but, on the contrary, as we promised in the preceding part of this discourse, we will now prove Him superior--or rather have already proved Him to be so--for the superior is revealed by His actions. And if we even affirm that He was born of a virgin, accept this in common with what you accept of Ferseus. And in that we say that He made whole the lame, the paralytic, and those born blind, we seem to say what is very similar to the deeds said to have been done by AEsculapius.

andrewcriddle

The main early example of pagans comparing Jesus to pagan gods and heroes to the disadvantage of Jesus is Celsus according to Origen's 'Contra Celsum'

Book 3 Book 7 However it is clear from 'Contra Celsum' as a whole that Celsus accepted some sort of historical Jesus (he seems to have regarded the historical Jesus as some sort of magician) and from these quotes he appears to take seriously Hercules etc as possibly historical figures.

Andrew Criddle

GakuseiDon

A number of early writers postulated that earlier stories of gods and heroes were based on historical people, incl Euhemerus (3rd C BCE).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euhemerus

Huon

The existence of Euhemerus shows that at least some Hellenistic people had doubts about the (then) traditional creeds. It is always possible to state that a "god" has taken the aspect of a "human". It is much less evident to state that a "human" has climbed up to the status of a "god". Some roman emperor said this on his deathbed : "I feel I am becoming a god...". I don't remember his name. Perhaps Vespasian (no guarantee) ? Roman emperors were deified after their death.

Chris Weimer

Even though Roman emporers were deified after their death (as was the tradition not only in Rome, but pharoahs and Chinese emporers as well), their status as a god was distinct from other gods, perhaps, though, since they were more recent than the current myths. There's more evidence that the gods evolved from natural occurences, such as the waters (Poseidon) or storms (Zeus) or death (Hades), than they did from people becoming divine.

andrewcriddle

Although the Emperors were only regarded as Gods in a rather qualified way. Antinous the lover of Hadrian became a God in the full blown sense.

Andrew Criddle

Chris Weimer

Andrew - the story of Antinous is a complicated one, but has mythology really developed over it?

andrewcriddle

According to Royston Lambert's 'Beloved and God' Antinous becomes merged with various Gods particularly Dionysius and hence shares their mythology.

He is regarded as conqueror of death. The obelisk at the Pincio Hill in Rome says of him 'the guardians of the gate of the kingdom of the underworld say 'Praise to you' to him. They loosen their bolts and open their gates before him many years long daily as his duration of life is the sun never in eternity elapsing'

It is said in various sources 'He grants the requests of those who call upon him.'

A mourning father in Mantineia commended the soul of his dead young son to 'the god Antinous'.

He is described on an inscription from Leptis Magna as 'Antinous the god of fruitfulness'

etc.

Andrew Criddle

Lord Umbra

Nope. Because the mythical Christ has NOT hindered the Xian message so far! So long as they BELIEVE by FAITH all their nonsense, then nothing is impacted. :angry: