la70119

The National Geographic has weighed in, reporting the archaeological consensus that there is zero evidence for settlement at Bethlehem at the time of the Herodian dynasty and especially around zeropoint CE.

sotto voce

If there is desire to dissuade that the birth of Jesus was according to prophecy (though it is claimed that there is not), there is that need.

Diogenes the Cynic

You're big on arguments from absence, sotto, yet I notice you rarely try to argue affirmatively FOR anything. You should be advised that this is not an effective strategy. Endlessly retreating into "you can't prove X DIDN"T happen" is certainly not an argument in favor of X happening, and is the most fatuous in trying to address negative evidence.

There is no evidence of a settlement at Bethlehem within a hundred year radius of 1 CE. About a 200 year stretch, with the Herodian period right at ground zero, with no settlement.

It isn't for lack of trying with this stuff, you know. There is, and has always been, a tremendous amount of desire to validate the historicity of Biblical narratives. There is a ton of money being spent by religionists sponsoring digs to try to prove some, anything about the Biblical histories is true. That's why you always see such hysterical overreaching on anything which is found which could even theoretically be a Biblical artifact somehow. Part of a public building which can be tendentiously dated to the 10th Century BCE? OMG it "DAVID'S PALACE!"

There isn't any conspiracy to conceal evidence of Biblical historicity. On the contrary, the normal practice is to inflate findings, not to hide them.

sotto voce

Then why do millions of people, intelligent, civilised, educated, respectable, responsible, even sophisticated people, believe that there was a settlement in Bethlehem in 1 'Anno Domini'?

Diogenes the Cynic

Because they don't know any better.

Ad populum arguments have very little currency around here, by the way.

Toto

Faith, not evidence

sotto voce

So belief that there was a settlement is necessarily incorrect, and belief that there was not a settlement is necessarily correct? That's called circularity.

Why do millions of people, intelligent, civilised, educated, respectable, responsible, even sophisticated people, believe that there was a settlement in Bethlehem in 1 'Anno Domini'?

Vorkosigan

Why do millions of people, intelligent, civilised, educated, respectable, responsible, even sophisticated people, believe that snake blood will make your phallus more magnificent when you have sex?

Why do millions of people, intelligent, civilised, educated, respectable, responsible, even sophisticated people, believe that flows of chi govern human health?

Why do millions of people, intelligent, civilised, educated, respectable, responsible, even sophisticated people, believe that there's a giant magic sky daddy who has a plan for everyone and everything?

Why do millions of people, intelligent, civilised, educated, respectable, responsible, even sophisticated people, believe that unevidenced beliefs are ok if intelligent, civilised, educated, respectable, responsible, even sophisticated people believe them?

Why do millions of people, intelligent, civilised, educated, respectable, responsible, even sophisticated people, believe that a rhetorical question is an argument?

sotto voce

Have I been missing out, all these years?

Now people do not ever, as far as I am aware, gather round and recite poems about Bugs Bunny, popular fellow though he is. And yet, two months ago, and not for the first time, intelligent, civilised, educated, respectable, responsible, even sophisticated people, even atheists, fernochrissakes, were gathered around reciting these words:

'O little town of Bethlehem
How still we see thee lie
Above thy deep and dreamless sleep
The silent stars go by
Yet in thy dark streets shineth
The everlasting Light
The hopes and fears of all the years
Are met in thee tonight

For Christ is born'

Now this is not proof that Jesus was born in Bethlehem. That is not being suggested. Neither is it proof that Jesus was born at all. But when somebody puts down on 'paper' that there is no evidence that anyone at all could have been born in Bethlehem in the putative days of the putative Jesus, one has to wonder how so many clever people, atheists included, can reckon that there is no such evidence.

Iskander

Yes, humans create reality with their thoughts and this creation is a reality as firm as brick and mortar.


Milton wanted to lay his poem at the feet of the newly born before the arrival of the wizards of the east.

“See how from far upon the Eastern road
The Star-led wizards haste with odors sweet:
O run, prevent them with thy humble ode,
And lay it lowly at His blessed feet.”

Milton, The Nativity Ode, line 22