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Old 12-23-2004, 03:19 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lpetrich
Urdu, Farsi, and Pashto are NOT derived from Arabic, no matter how many Arabic borrowings they may contain. THey are Indo-Iranian, a subgrouping of Indo-European. And Arabic is NOT Indo-European.

From Mark Rosenfelder's numbers page:

Indo-European:
English: one, two, three, ten
Old English: an, twa, thri, tien
Old Norse: einn, tveir, thrir, tiu
Gothic: ains, twai, threis, taihun
Latin: unus, duo, tres, decem
Greek: heis, duo, treis, deka
Russian: odin, dva, tri, desyat'
Serbo-Croat: jedan, dva, tri, deset
Lithuanian: vienas, du, trys, deshimt
Avestan: aewa, dwa, thraio, dasa
Pashto: yaw, dwa, dre, les
Pahlavi: evak, do, si, dah
Farsi: yak, do, se, dah
Sanskrit: eka, dva, tre, dasa
Sinhalese: eka, deka, tuna, dahaya
Hindi/Urdu: ek, do, tin, das

Semitic:
Akkadian: ishten, shena, shalash, esher
Arabic: wahhid, ithnan, thalatha, 'ashara
Aramaic: xadh, tereyn, telatha, 'asera
Hebrew: ahhat, shtayim, shalosh, 'eser
Thanks for the correction dear ipetrich.

I was not explainaing the origin of the languages but the similarities as regard the point I was explaining ie some languages are genderical others are not eg Arabic is, english is not. For example word KITAAB in Arabic is feminine but word book in english is neuter oe neutral in gender neither male nor female.

Regards and all the best.
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Old 12-23-2004, 04:24 AM   #22
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Default At least get the fucking langauge right

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corwin
'Allah' has nothing to do with 'Elohim' lingusitically speaking. (By the way... you're aware that 'Elohim' is a plural noun, right? Just checking.)

In simple terms: 'Allah' is arabic for 'The Only.' (The implication being 'the only God.')
No, that's false.

Allah (as written in Arabic) is a semi-contracted form of "The God." It is most certainly linguistically related to the similar Hebrew formation.

"The Only" is an entirely different word.
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Old 12-23-2004, 04:27 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mughal
For example word KITAAB in Arabic is feminine but word book in english is neuter oe neutral in gender neither male nor female.
English largely lost gender [edited to add: unlike many if not most other I-E langauges - not sure what <edited> point Mughul was trying to make in that connexion], but Kitab is not feminine in Arabic, it's masculine in the singular, feminine in the plural (as are all non-human object plurals).
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Old 12-23-2004, 04:32 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Tuvar Ane Ingolenen
I've heard that Allah is derived from the pre-submission arabian moon goddess Al-Lat (and that the spelling of the word Allah is one usual for female plural). Al-Lat was one of a triple goddess Al-Lat, Al-Uzza and Menat. Al-Uzza, associated with the morning star, was the main goddess of Mohammad's tribe, who were the keepers of the Ka'aba. This could also explain explain the origin of the symbol for Submission, the crescent moon and star. Anybody know if there is any truth to this?
It's false, despite the bizarre misinformation from our Mughul.

As for the crescent moon issue, that's a just so story - the crescent moon as a popular symbol in the Middle East largely derives from Turkish tribal usages and is not a key early symbolic item.
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Old 12-23-2004, 04:46 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by premjan
why is it spelt as zakaat / salaat / allaat then?
<edited>

The actual answer is the following (and excuse the deficincies of transliteration):

For feminine nouns the singular ending is the taa-marbutah, (literally the tied T), looks somewhat like the normal soft "H" when in "open" form. Uninflected pronunciation is as if there was an a-h (ah) ending, inflected or in liason you hear the T.

Examples:
Kitaaba: writing
Kitaabatoun: writing - the spelling is actually as Kitaba in the script, but I have added the inflected pronunciation (nominative case).

In liason, taking the phrase, "our writing":
Kitaabetna.

In the plural, with some irregular exceptions (the evil broken plurals... ah the headaches) the taa marbutah becomes aleph ta, or at

So, again, taking our example, kitaabaat (writings, actually not a good example but let's run with it).

Zakah is the singular, as you can divine, zakaat is the plural, where ta-marboutah becomes aleph ta. Simple enough.

The moon goddess rubbish is just that. The form of al-Lah, the God, is known from pre-Islamic writing, and there is no reason to suppose what is in fact an ungrammatical and what is essentially non-Arabic derivation for it. Nonwhatsoever. Other than simple minded axe grinding of the worst sort.

Of course, this is essentially a linguistic question and doesn't tell you anything theologically important.

<edited>
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Old 12-23-2004, 06:02 AM   #26
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Critiquing arguments and challenging claims is great. Insults and ad homs are not. Please stick to discussing the topic and leave the personalities out of it.
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