Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Amaleq13 · 08-10-2007, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spamandham

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joan of Bark

Also, many of those Bibles were freebies, courtesy of Gideons and others.

On occasion, while travelling, I open a Gideon's Bible and write "Fiction" at the top and bottom of the first page.

Doesn't somebody online sell warning label stickers for that?

ETA: Yes, they do.

Toto · 08-10-2007, 10:00 PM

FFRF: Skull and Crossbones Bible warning sticker "literal belief in this book may endanger your health and life"

08-10-2007, 10:29 PM

I like the first ones better. More choice and funnier.

koko the monkey. · 08-11-2007, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul2

Yes, I've read the bible. Doing so is what led to my eventual deconversion. The story about Job is what really started me thinking. Why was God such a dick to this poor man? Just to win a bet with the devil? My pastors answers, "It's ok, God gives and God takes away" and "It's ok because Job and his family all went to heaven" only made me less enthusiastic about christianity.

yeah, that was a seriously lame answer. granting even that his position is true, it still doesn't answer the legitimate angst behind the question. ugh.

Dave Hawkins · 08-11-2007, 03:47 PM

I have read several English versions, including the NIV, NASB, the KJV and the NKJV. I also have a Greek NT and read it some. My dad can read the Tanakh in Hebrew as well as the NT in Greek and I will probably learn Hebrew soon also. Comments on the Apocrypha shortly.

VoxRat · 08-11-2007, 08:10 PM

Quote:

I also have a Greek NT and read it some.

Is your knowledge of Greek any better than your knowledge of science? Color me skeptical.

Quote:

I will probably learn Hebrew soon also.

Right.

Is that in addition to, or instead of, going for that PhD in molecular biology?

spamandham · 08-11-2007, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by afdave

I also have a Greek NT and read it some.

Yah, me too. It's called the Blue Letter Bible, online for free.

08-11-2007, 08:16 PM

Hey, if Dave likes a bit of Greek that's his business.

Dave Hawkins · 08-12-2007, 04:37 AM

Gaisler and Nix on the Apocrypha ...

Quote:

Historical testimony to their exclusion

Geisler and Nix give a succession of 10 testimonies of antiquity against accepting the Apocrypha:

1. Philo ... quoted the Old Testament prolifically and even recognized the threefold division, but he never quoted from the Apocrypha as inspired.

2. Josephus ... explicitly excludes the Apocrypha, numbering the books of the Old Testament as 22.

3. Jesus and the New Testament writers never once quote the Apocrypha although there are hundreds of quotes and references to almost all of the canonical books of the Old Testament.

4. The Jewish scholars of Jamnia (A.D. 90) did not recognize the Apocrypha.

5. No canon or council of the Christian church for the first four centuries recognized the Apocrypha as inspired.

6. Many of the great Fathers of the early church spoke out against the Apocrypha, for example, Origen, Cyril of Jerusalem, Athanasius.

7. Jerome (340-420), the great scholar and translator of the Vulgate, rejected the Apocrypha as part of the canon. He disputed across the Mediterranean with Augustine on this point. He at first refused even to translate the Apocryphal books into Latin, but later he made a hurried translation of a few of them. After his death, and literally "over his dead body," the Apocryphal books were brought into his Latin Vulgate directly from the Old Latin Version.

8. Many Roman Catholic scholars rejected the canonicity of the Apocrypha.

9. Luther and the Reformers rejected the canonicity of the Apocrypha.

10. Not until A.D. 1546, in a polemical action at the Counter Reformation Council of Trent, did the Apocryphal books receive full canonical status by the Roman Catholic Church.

Geisler, Norman L. and William E. Nix, A General Introduction to the Bible (or via: amazon.co.uk), Chicago: Moody Press (or via: amazon.co.uk), 1968, p. 173, quoted in Josh McDowell, Evidence That Demands a Verdict (or via: amazon.co.uk), vol I, p. 36.

Magdlyn · 08-12-2007, 06:11 AM

Jude quotes from the apocryphal books of Enoch and the Assumption of Moses.

Jude 9- Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil, he disputed about the body of Moses, dared not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

Clement of Alexandria, Origen, and Didymus concur that Jude 9 is a quotation from the (now lost) book The Assumption of Moses.

Jude 14, 15 quote from 1 Enoch:

1 Enoch 1:9 And behold! He cometh with ten thousands of His holy ones to execute judgment upon all, and to destroy all the ungodly; and to convict all flesh of all the works of their ungodliness which they have ungodly committed, and of all the hard things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.

Jude 14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
Jude 15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

Kind of makes me wonder about the veracity of the rest of the info in your link.

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08-10-2007, 10:00 PM	#352
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	FFRF: Skull and Crossbones Bible warning sticker "literal belief in this book may endanger your health and life"

08-10-2007, 10:29 PM	#353
mung bean Guest Posts: n/a	I like the first ones better. More choice and funnier.

08-11-2007, 03:47 PM	#355
Dave Hawkins Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Missouri Posts: 2,375	I have read several English versions, including the NIV, NASB, the KJV and the NKJV. I also have a Greek NT and read it some. My dad can read the Tanakh in Hebrew as well as the NT in Greek and I will probably learn Hebrew soon also. Comments on the Apocrypha shortly.

08-11-2007, 08:16 PM	#358
mung bean Guest Posts: n/a	Hey, if Dave likes a bit of Greek that's his business.

08-12-2007, 06:11 AM	#360
Magdlyn Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 2,230	Jude quotes from the apocryphal books of Enoch and the Assumption of Moses. Jude 9- Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil, he disputed about the body of Moses, dared not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee. Clement of Alexandria, Origen, and Didymus concur that Jude 9 is a quotation from the (now lost) book The Assumption of Moses. Jude 14, 15 quote from 1 Enoch: 1 Enoch 1:9 And behold! He cometh with ten thousands of His holy ones to execute judgment upon all, and to destroy all the ungodly; and to convict all flesh of all the works of their ungodliness which they have ungodly committed, and of all the hard things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him. Jude 14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, Jude 15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. Kind of makes me wonder about the veracity of the rest of the info in your link.

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