Secular Elation

I seem to have a built in resistance to the Buddhist and Zen way of thought. In trying to pinpoint what it is, I think I have found it in reading MSN Encarta's description of Zen. Here is a quick excerpt.

I think this is the core of my qualm with Zen and Buddhism. How can humans be expected to have a mind without grasping thoughts or feelings? It is only natural and human to look at life, to look at reality, and interpret and process it with lasting thoughts and feelings. You will say, "Well yeah--but that's what Buddhism/Zen is all about, to get rid of such things." You're expecting me to go against my human nature? Sorry, it isn't going to happen. I'm a person, not a robot.

premjan

No doubt it is impossible to achieve "no-grasping" without first having grasped a lot. If going for no-grasping is problematic, go for deliberate grasping, instead of the gestalt version which you currently practise. Think consciously about grasping onto your thoughts and emotions. It will have the exact same effect as no-grasping techniques in the long run.

Son of Odin

Isn't it Buddhism that says that all life is suffering, and to end the suffering you have got to stop wanting stuff and getting attached to it ?
Than I ask you: what's the point in living ?
Sure...life sucks most of the times, but that is totally worth the fun moments.
I'dd rather take the pain with the pleasure than to not have either.
All this Buddhism/zen stuff seems to be aiming at the spirit being better than the corporal world. But the spirit is nonsense, and the corporal world is reality. I think I'll stick with reality than, painfull as it may be.

lenrek

I think you should ask for someone who is more familiar with Zen Buddhism, and see whether this definition fits what their understanding. If you don't like Zen Buddhism, there are still many forms of Buddhism. Some is orthodox and some maybe unorthodox. You should spend sometime in investigating all various schools of Buddhism and find one that you would enjoy and benefit from. To reject the entire Buddhism just because of a particular school is rather unwise.

lenrek

The objective of Buddhism is to end suffering. In order to end suffering, one need to understand the source or the reasons for suffering. We suffer because of clinging that is unwholesome or not beneficial. This clinging is result of our mind that is still unskillful.

This mind is unskillful because it is still easily overwhelm by our greed, hatred (anger or fear) and foolishness. Thus, the target of mental states that a Buddhist strive to destroy is this greed, this hatred, and this foolishness.

If one successfully eradicate this greed, this hatred and this foolishness, then his live will be free from greed, hatred and foolishness. Thus allow kindness, compassion, love, sympathy, joy, peace, serenity, wisdom and other wholesome mental states to grow. These wholesome states will grow in their genuine states, without being corrupted by the unwholesome states. This person will now live a life that is blameless. With a blameless live, he will life in genuine joy and peace, which result in great happiness.

Such person, due this full developed nature, will mature as being helpful and beneficial to society. He live by example of blameless live, in doing to set as example of a way of blameless live. With the mind no longer influence by foolishness, he will act accordingly and wisely.

This person is now capable as being a guide for himself as well as being a guide for others. It is this establishment for a person, that a Buddhist valued and venerate.

Yeshi

hehehe

well it is about a level of grasping at thoughts/emotions that determines your freedom. After even a very short proper buddhist practice.. lets say 3 months, you would be able to "see through" the emotions in the moment as they appear and how they in themselves then make other fuzzy emotions/thoughts appear and disturb. Then you would be able to transcend those in a sense that you could choose with which to go and which to abandon.
Presumably, guided by your higher nature, you'd go for benefitial things and emotions and drop the restricting/confusing/negative/harmful ones.

As it is now, without a proper rudder, you are adrift in the ocean of suffering called Samsara - you cannot choose, and you cannot act freely. What's more, most of the time you are not AWARE as to what or why is happening to you :/ When certain sensory perceptions set you off, you will do things in an instant whim that you might regret, and that can set off chain reactions that produce a plethora of issues one might not have wanted.

It is in animal nature not to be consciouss of what happens to them.
It is perfectly within human nature to overstep the restrictions, and attain liberty. One could argue it is our human DUTY to do so in order to ascend from animal level at all ...

So, to underline, one can have thoughts and feelings - and noone can take those away as these are part of our human nature. But the grasping is what gets untangled

Son of Odin

Lenrek, Yeshi,

You guys seem to be well informed about Buddhism. I also read some stuff about it, but as you can see, my conclusions were different then yours.
Can you give me any good sources about where I can find more information about Buddhism the way you describe it ?

lenrek

Excellently spoken...

It is this human potential that allow human to ascend from unwholesome states which the animal are not able to. In fact, it is this potential that make us humane.

lenrek

I think the main difference here is we try to apply the teaching into practice. In doing so, we understand essense of it. Thus, when we explain, we explain in a more balance manner.

I also believe, for one to understand a teaching, he must first understand the objective. From understanding the objective, then he must learn the method to achieve the objective. To understand the methods, he must practice them in real live.

To get the correct view of the teaching, one should look for a teacher that is suitable and worthy. Suitable in a sense, his words is easy for you to understand. Worthy in a sense, he has reached a level that well enough for him to teach. At this moment, I can think of a few teachers that (to me) fit this criterial.

- Ajahn Brahmavamso. He born in UK, became a monk in Thailand. If I remember correctly, before he became a monk, he graduated with a PHD in Theoretical Physics at UK. I always find his words most motivating. He is a student of late (Arahant) Ajahn Chah.

- Bhikkhu Bodhi. A Jews born in NY. Became a monk in Sri Lanka. He is a scholarly monk, active in work of translation of ancient Buddhist text. I think he gave a speech at UN.

- Sayadaw U Silananda. A monk from Myanmar. He is a master in Buddhist meditation and as well as great in the knowledge of Abhidhamma. The Abhidhamma class that I attended under him was (and still is) insightful.

- Venerable K. Sri Dhammananda Mahathera. A monk from Sri Lanka. He is one of the most senior and most respected monk in Malaysia. Author of a popular book, What Buddhist Believe.

- Venerable Nyanaponika Mahathera. A German who became a monk in Sri Lanka. He has (unfortunately for us) past away. I find his books are the most insightful guide into the world of Buddhism.

Perhaps you should spend sometime looking for the works or books that is done by these teachers. There are many other teachers as well, but these are the ones that I am more familiar.

Of course, they are all Theravada teachers. Perhaps Yeshi can provide same useful info into the Mahayana teachings.

You are always welcome to go straight into the reading of Buddhist Suttas. Just do a search of "Discourses of the Buddha" at http://www.amazon.com, and order them online, or look for them at your local book shops.

King Rat

My Sifu explained it this way:

No Mind is about reducing mental clutter. When you are completely one with the task at hand and "in the zone." Right action occurs with no thought to begin or end the action. You are intensely aware of your surroundings but not attached to any one aspect.

Buddhism was great for my pool game.